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> Plants And "pain"
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insurrection
May 21 2004, 12:56 PM


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Nino
May 23 2004, 08:56 AM


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Surely if a plant can feel pain it would of made some sort of response to show the pain. Also would it need a brain, receptors and a nervous system to feel or recognize pain.


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cosmic
May 23 2004, 02:44 PM


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Plants are extraordinary organisms. The lengths they go to reproduce, grow(strangler fig?), flower, and the awesome way they "feel" the earth. It would be ignorant of us to assume plants are sensory defecient.


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Nino
May 24 2004, 05:06 AM


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But they dont really feel they reach for nutrients. Roots dont feel they just sense for example water and take it from the soil. In my opinion i would say a living thing would have to have a brain that recognizes pain and if it did i would presume it would produce something to counteract the threat of being put in pain for example a person who is going to be punched will normally try to avoid thepunch not to get hurt.


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I am neither christ nor philanthropist...
I am the complete opposite of a christ..
I fight with whatever arms i have at hand
for what i believe in and i try to destroy
my opponent rather then letting myself be
nailed to a cross or anywhere else.

If you respect life, defend it
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Banksy
May 24 2004, 05:56 AM


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QUOTE
they just sense for example water
= sensory.

I agree though i don't think plants feel pain like we feel because they don't have a consience. Its debatable whether they can "sense" the pain though.


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Nino
May 24 2004, 11:49 AM


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QUOTE
= sensory.


What was the point in that banksy umm nevermind.



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I am neither christ nor philanthropist...
I am the complete opposite of a christ..
I fight with whatever arms i have at hand
for what i believe in and i try to destroy
my opponent rather then letting myself be
nailed to a cross or anywhere else.

If you respect life, defend it
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Holter
May 24 2004, 01:16 PM


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my old post

QUOTE
Do you avoid walking on grass, everytime you step you are bending a piece in half. Have you ever eaten maple syrup? They stab into a tree and let it slowly ooze into a pot. All these things would hurt anything. Most pain in humans is mental. The more you focus on what is hurting you the more it hurts. Ive been burnt badly before and it hurt like hell, but once you try to channel your focus on something else it hurts considerably less. That to me means that pain is a mental issue, and seeing as plaints dont have a brain, they dont feel pain in the same way that we do. To them its just an obstacle in their way of life. Like the punture hole in the side of a maple tree, It hurts because it is losing a part of itself. But it doesnt realize that it is hurting, it just trudges along. A plant doesnt know about potential circumstances that may come from that puncture wound. We do, so we focus on it and the pain becomes worse because of fear. IMO plants do not have the capacity for fear or hurt because they lack our intelligence, which we all know is what separates us from every other species on Earth. This can be a good and bad thing in us, but that is not a part of this argument.


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Banksy
May 24 2004, 01:18 PM


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Because cosmic said "it would be ignorant of us to assume plants are sensory defecient" then you put "Roots dont feel they just sense for example water"


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cosmic
May 24 2004, 02:16 PM


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here we go in our little loop again. So basically its only about "pain"...not that its alive?


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Fanatical Radica...
May 25 2004, 06:52 AM


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QUOTE (cosmic @ May 24 2004, 10:16 PM)
here we go in our little loop again. So basically its only about "pain"...not that its alive?

I think your right

The main issue people have with plants and the feeling of pain isn't anything beyond the very definition of pain.

in a dictionary pain is defined as:

1. An unpleasant sensation occurring in varying degrees of severity as a consequence of injury, disease, or emotional disorder.
2. Suffering or distress.
3. pains The pangs of childbirth.
4. pains Great care or effort: take pains with one's work.
5. Informal. A source of annoyance; a nuisance.

Under those definitions I wouldn't believe that plants feel pain. However if you define pain as a stress response, generally with the intention to aviod pain then i know plants feel pain. It's been observed many times that plants have actual responses to stress.

So I think that everyone isn't arguing whether or not plants feel pain, but more-so indirectly arguing "what is pain"


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Nino
May 25 2004, 07:55 AM


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A plant doesnt have a nervous system, a co ordinator eg a brain or spinal colum. A plant is like a group of specalized tissues that dont feel and dont sense pain.


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I am neither christ nor philanthropist...
I am the complete opposite of a christ..
I fight with whatever arms i have at hand
for what i believe in and i try to destroy
my opponent rather then letting myself be
nailed to a cross or anywhere else.

If you respect life, defend it
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cosmic
May 25 2004, 08:37 AM


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^ that has been reiterated through and through.

Doesn't every organism have the right to live whether or not it has the capacity to sense "pain?"


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Nino
May 26 2004, 07:20 AM


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It has no rights its a plant. I understand where our coming from but in my opinion it may have a right to live but its not really that important for it too. Although without plants and trees we would die i dont think killing a measly plant is going to count as murder or if someone does they shouldnt feel like they have killed anything with much purpose.


--------------------
I am neither christ nor philanthropist...
I am the complete opposite of a christ..
I fight with whatever arms i have at hand
for what i believe in and i try to destroy
my opponent rather then letting myself be
nailed to a cross or anywhere else.

If you respect life, defend it
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cosmic
May 26 2004, 10:25 AM


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QUOTE
It has no rights its a plant


Why not? Explain...

QUOTE
they shouldnt feel like they have killed anything with much purpose.


Are you serious? ohno.gif Plants don't have much purpose?


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ImperialAerosolK...
May 26 2004, 12:03 PM


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Even when you kill an animal for food it still has a purpose. Live life without living plants...you'll understand purpose when you're fainting from too much carbon dioxide.
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