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> Plants And "pain"
cosmic
post May 26 2004, 12:27 PM
Post #121


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Right on.


Just the rain forests themselves produce 40% of the earths oxygen.


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Nino
post May 26 2004, 02:42 PM
Post #122


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QUOTE
Although without plants and trees we would die


If you read that it tells you that i said trees have a purpose. Trees are more important then plants and why should it have rights its doesnt really live it just grows without doing anything except producing certain things and turning carbon dioxide into oxygen, that why plants dont have rights because they dont really live they just function.


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cosmic
post May 26 2004, 04:40 PM
Post #123


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When I say "plants" i mean the entire plantae kingdom.

QUOTE
Trees are more important then plants and why should it have rights its doesnt really live it just grows without doing anything except producing certain things and turning carbon dioxide into oxygen



????

...eh, turning co2 into oxygen isn't much. huh.gif

QUOTE
that why plants dont have rights because they dont really live they just function.


functioning is living.


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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 26 2004, 05:11 PM
Post #124


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a debate on the utility/futility of plants????

If we were any more anal retentive our neckties would turn to bowties.


(No...I'm not wearing a tie.) cool.gif
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Nino
post May 27 2004, 12:37 AM
Post #125


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QUOTE
functioning is living


Not really my computer functions but it isnt alive. It depends on how you interprete the word living. A plant has a purpose to turn carbond dioxide into oxygen it produces other things that arent really important. In my opinion a plant doesnt have any rights because it isnt the same as a animal or a human in the aspect that it doesnt have a brain.


--------------------
I am neither christ nor philanthropist...
I am the complete opposite of a christ..
I fight with whatever arms i have at hand
for what i believe in and i try to destroy
my opponent rather then letting myself be
nailed to a cross or anywhere else.

If you respect life, defend it
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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 27 2004, 02:54 AM
Post #126


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QUOTE (amaru @ May 27 2004, 08:37 AM)
QUOTE
functioning is living


Not really my computer functions but it isnt alive. It depends on how you interprete the word living. A plant has a purpose to turn carbond dioxide into oxygen it produces other things that arent really important. In my opinion a plant doesnt have any rights because it isnt the same as a animal or a human in the aspect that it doesnt have a brain.

Now that lack of brain comment was an unintentional straight line right???
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Nino
post May 27 2004, 04:22 AM
Post #127


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QUOTE
Now that lack of brain comment was an unintentional straight line right???


In english ?


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I am neither christ nor philanthropist...
I am the complete opposite of a christ..
I fight with whatever arms i have at hand
for what i believe in and i try to destroy
my opponent rather then letting myself be
nailed to a cross or anywhere else.

If you respect life, defend it
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Banksy
post May 27 2004, 05:28 AM
Post #128


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QUOTE (amaru @ May 27 2004, 08:37 AM)
QUOTE
functioning is living


Not really my computer functions but it isnt alive. It depends on how you interprete the word living.

I was taught in primary school (as where you, i sat next to you) that living things are determined by the 7 life process things:
Movement
Respiration
Sensitivity
Growth
Reproduction
Excretion
Nutrition

Your computer may be advanced but i know it doesn't do all of them. What determines how plants and other living things should be treated i beleive is whether they have a conscience or not. A plant doesn't so it can not question its instincts it just "functions" as you have said. The big argument whether vegertarians should eat fish or not is down to whether a fish has a conscience or a big enough one to know it exists. A cow however can choose to an extent whether she wants to sit or stand. Chew or not chew. She can move where ever she feels. Thats where I believe the divide to be.


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Nino
post May 27 2004, 07:16 AM
Post #129


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I agree with that banksy although i dont agree that something lives just because it follows those MRS GREN shifty.gif . In my opinion a plant merely survives and living should be thought of as you said something that has a capacity to decided what it could do like a cow standing and sitting good example.


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I am neither christ nor philanthropist...
I am the complete opposite of a christ..
I fight with whatever arms i have at hand
for what i believe in and i try to destroy
my opponent rather then letting myself be
nailed to a cross or anywhere else.

If you respect life, defend it
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cosmic
post May 27 2004, 07:23 AM
Post #130


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so in essence, by your reasoning, humans just "function." Our brain is just waveform "functions."

Saying plants arent living is not true. They are alive. You plant a seed, out comes a living cellular organism. Every living thing has a right to live. Your computer is not alive, it doen't have a cellular biology.

What does a brain have to do with anything? Thats discrimination.


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Banksy
post May 27 2004, 07:46 AM
Post #131


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QUOTE (cosmic @ May 27 2004, 03:23 PM)
Saying plants arent living is not true. They are alive. You plant a seed, out comes a living cellular organism. Every living thing has a right to live. Your computer is not alive, it doen't have a cellular biology.

Plants are living thats true and they are very important part of our eco system and food chain. Like everything else thats living they our part of a food chain which is why the atatment you made about everything living has a right to live causes so many problems. Yes everything living does deserve to live but we shouldn't tammper with the food chains. Is it important though whether a plant dies or live because a plant doesn't have the inteligence to recognise whether its dead or alive.


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Banksy
post May 27 2004, 08:19 AM
Post #132


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Ive been reading what cosmic has wrote about this and it is impossible to find an answer to, do plants feel "pain"? Until now ive been taking the word "pain" as "ouch someone has just stood on my toe." or, "ive just lost my wife im so upset." "Pain" thoguh could be interpritated as many different things which means there is more than one answer for this argument. If you look at "pain" as the "ouch someone has stood on my toe" the initial reaction is to move your foot so your not in "Pain". Again if "ive just lost my wife im so upset." is "pain" to escape the "pain" you react to the situation by trying to get over the death of your wife. What im trying to say is that "pain" is a reaction to something. I always defined "pain" as being hurt or upset. "pain" could be defined as a stress that is applied to something and the something trys to react to the stress by trying to reduce it. The guy who had it foot stood on reacts to the stress by moving his foot. The other guy who lost his wife reacts in anyway he can to release the stress of loosing his loved one. A plant that is is the drak reacts by bending its stem so it able to take in light again. A leaf that is cut reacts by releasing Methane and healing the cut. I supose if you look at "pain" in this way, a plant does feel "pain". I hope what ive wrote makes sense because it just about makes sense to me and i find it hard to describe.

This post has been edited by Banksy: May 27 2004, 08:24 AM


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Banksy
post May 27 2004, 08:29 AM
Post #133


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Im glad I made that statement now ^ . It means i can have a decent argument now with a vegertarian and i can justify my meat eating instinction. I just hope they don't starve themselves to death after it.


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cosmic
post May 27 2004, 08:51 AM
Post #134


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^ very nice argument banksy. A little messy, but I understood it.


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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 27 2004, 09:34 AM
Post #135


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QUOTE (amaru @ May 27 2004, 12:22 PM)
QUOTE
Now that lack of brain comment was an unintentional straight line right???


In english ?

Now that lack of brain comment was an unintentional straight line right???
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