Zack de la Rocha Network Forum _ .:: "the hot seat" ::. _ Eating Disorders

: ImperialAerosolKid Jun 23 2004, 07:31 AM

http://www.suntimes.com/output/zwecker/cst-ftr-zp23.html

: Jingle Jun 23 2004, 08:41 AM

sad.gif

-J

: rev79 Jun 23 2004, 09:36 AM

Good. I love reading about rich people's hardships.

: Jingle Jun 23 2004, 09:54 AM

QUOTE
Good. I love reading about rich people's hardships.


ermm.gif That's sad, man.

-J

: elisium Jun 23 2004, 10:56 AM

laughing.gif laughing.gif

: Casbah Jun 23 2004, 11:02 AM

i know, i hate hearing about all these rich folk's tough shit...some people just love this, and have so much sympathy for rich people, ive got nothing but complete anger and resentment for all of them

: zapatista Jun 23 2004, 04:16 PM

Well.. to be honest, I feel for her. Eatting disorders are no joke.. being in the public eye all the time has to be really stressful... heck, when I was cheerleading I was ALOT more insecure about my weight then I am now.. just because then it was more public.. ya know.. resulted in a borderline eatting disorder.. so, but anyhoot.. hopefullly she'll get the help that she needs.

: Casbah Jun 23 2004, 04:22 PM

i cant picture zap doing cheers decked with revolutionary propaganda on next to all the barbie lookalikes laughing.gif

: Jingle Jun 23 2004, 04:48 PM

QUOTE (zapatista @ Jun 24 2004, 12:16 AM)
Well.. to be honest, I feel for her. Eatting disorders are no joke.. being in the public eye all the time has to be really stressful... heck, when I was cheerleading I was ALOT more insecure about my weight then I am now.. just because then it was more public.. ya know.. resulted in a borderline eatting disorder.. so, but anyhoot.. hopefullly she'll get the help that she needs.

yeah, i really hope she gets better. i don't like her, but eating disorders are serious problems. i hope she gets the help she needs! sad.gif

-J

: ImperialAerosolKid Jun 23 2004, 04:52 PM

QUOTE (zapatista @ Jun 24 2004, 12:16 AM)
Well.. to be honest, I feel for her. Eatting disorders are no joke.. being in the public eye all the time has to be really stressful... heck, when I was cheerleading I was ALOT more insecure about my weight then I am now.. just because then it was more public.. ya know.. resulted in a borderline eatting disorder.. so, but anyhoot.. hopefullly she'll get the help that she needs.

and you made fun of me for the che shirt???

glasshouse projectile alert! huh.gif


it does suck about eating disorders.

: zapatista Jun 23 2004, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jun 23 2004, 07:52 PM)

and you made fun of me for the che shirt???

glasshouse projectile alert! huh.gif

I did?

: ImperialAerosolKid Jun 24 2004, 05:03 AM

QUOTE (zapatista @ Jun 24 2004, 04:57 AM)
QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jun 23 2004, 07:52 PM)

and you made fun of me for the che shirt???

glasshouse projectile alert! huh.gif

I did?

during the che amp thread i admitted i had one and you gave a great response of...


"err..i don't have a che shirt. but anyhoot."

i remember! shifty.gif

: insurrection Jun 28 2004, 10:17 PM

QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jun 24 2004, 09:03 AM)
QUOTE (zapatista @ Jun 24 2004, 04:57 AM)
QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jun 23 2004, 07:52 PM)

and you made fun of me for the che shirt???

glasshouse projectile alert! huh.gif

I did?

during the che amp thread i admitted i had one and you gave a great response of...


"err..i don't have a che shirt. but anyhoot."

i remember! shifty.gif

thats making fun? unsure.gif

: elisium Jun 28 2004, 10:27 PM

laughing.gif

: ImperialAerosolKid Jun 29 2004, 06:35 AM

QUOTE (insurrection @ Jun 29 2004, 06:17 AM)
QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jun 24 2004, 09:03 AM)
QUOTE (zapatista @ Jun 24 2004, 04:57 AM)
QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jun 23 2004, 07:52 PM)

and you made fun of me for the che shirt???

glasshouse projectile alert! huh.gif

I did?

during the che amp thread i admitted i had one and you gave a great response of...


"err..i don't have a che shirt. but anyhoot."

i remember! shifty.gif

thats making fun? unsure.gif

it put ME in my place!

: zapatista Jun 29 2004, 06:51 AM

http://www.zdlr.net/board/index.php?showtopic=5300&hl=che%20shirt%20amp&st=15

haha You know I was joking with ya.. there might have been need for a glasshouse projectile alert! with my statement.. but that was a long time ago.. see.. unsure.gif

wavenew.gif

: elisium Jun 29 2004, 11:23 AM

wavenew.gif

: Renegades Jul 4 2004, 12:50 AM

As for Mary-Kate Olsen, I don't give a shit about her getting anorexia. In fact, maybe after she's recovered she'll become a nicer person. Horrible diseases seem to have that effect on spoilt, ignorant, sheltered, right-winged rich little goodie goodie teen bitches every so often. I hate those sisters, they're enough to make me sick. I'm glad Mary-Kate has got something else to harp about now other than the lipstick stain on her new Gucci bag.

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 5 2004, 05:09 PM

QUOTE (zapatista @ Jun 29 2004, 02:51 PM)
http://www.zdlr.net/board/index.php?showtopic=5300&hl=che%20shirt%20amp&st=15

haha You know I was joking with ya.. there might have been need for a glasshouse projectile alert! with my statement.. but that was a long time ago.. see.. unsure.gif

wavenew.gif

all beans are cool smile2.gif

: ratmgirl Jul 5 2004, 05:34 PM

I feel bad for her. It must be super hard for her to be young and be living in the public eye all her life. There's so much pressure for those famous people to be twig thin. It's disgusting and for that I blame the media for me thinking i'm fat. I'd love to be as skinny as she is. Well, not really but as skinny as some poeple are on tv. Lately, the idea of food is just grossing me out. cry.gif

: Intrepid_one Jul 5 2004, 08:27 PM



I may get slammed for this but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania. Look at all those people who are starving because they don't HAVE any food, are oppressed and living in filth without the basic necessities of life, with problems we can't even begin to conceive. There vertebra’s stick out of there backs because there is no food or water. Not because they want to look as pretty as Christina Agulara in her backless Prada number.

: Manifest Jul 5 2004, 09:17 PM

clap2.gif

: zapatista Jul 5 2004, 09:18 PM

QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 5 2004, 11:27 PM)
I may get slammed for this but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania. Look at all those people who are starving because they don't HAVE any food, are oppressed and living in filth without the basic necessities of life, with problems we can't even begin to conceive. There vertebra’s stick out of there backs because there is no food or water. Not because they want to look as pretty as Christina Agulara in her backless Prada number.

That's not what it's about at all.. get a freakin clue.

: rev79 Jul 5 2004, 09:24 PM

QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 5 2004, 11:27 PM)
I may get slammed for this but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania. Look at all those people who are starving because they don't HAVE any food, are oppressed and living in filth without the basic necessities of life, with problems we can't even begin to conceive. There vertebra’s stick out of there backs because there is no food or water. Not because they want to look as pretty as Christina Agulara in her backless Prada number.

Right on!
Think about all the good healthy food that ends up in the garbage can because these prissies refuse to even touch it, while in other parts of the world you got people digging in dumpsters for a peach pit, for christ sake! They fear their weight might vault from 75 to 80 lbs., all the while fussing in the mirror that they're FAT.

: insurrection Jul 5 2004, 09:27 PM

this is pretty insensitive... its not only their fault that they get anorexia. they are being influenced by tv, probably peer and job pressure also. although i guess it is in part their fault for not realizing how stupid it is.

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 5 2004, 09:28 PM

QUOTE (zapatista @ Jul 6 2004, 05:18 AM)
QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 5 2004, 11:27 PM)
I may get slammed for this but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania. Look at all those people who are starving because they don't HAVE any food, are oppressed and living in filth without the basic necessities of life, with problems we can't even begin to conceive. There vertebra’s stick out of there backs because there is no food or water. Not because they want to look as pretty as Christina Agulara in her backless Prada number.

That's not what it's about at all.. get a freakin clue.

being the token male purger i have to agree

: Sara Jul 5 2004, 11:20 PM

QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 6 2004, 04:27 PM)
It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania.

No. smile.gif


before you guys make such ignorant observations about disorders, i suggest you read up on it, from credible pscyhology journals or books, or even first year psych text books.


i am really surprised to read this comment coming from you. everything else you said in every other topic always reflected how knowledgble you are. ermm.gif


: Intrepid_one Jul 6 2004, 02:14 AM

I fully expected this. I'm not ignorant, this is just my opinion, please try to respect that. I'm allowed that....i think. I may have been a little harsh, and granted my rant was not exactly packed with factual or medical information, but it’s the way I feel about where the disease is rooted from. Blame the media, blame TV, blame Gwyenith Paltrow...the fact is i have little sympathy.

I do see your point i suppose i should read up on it a little more carefully before I pass such judgment, but the fact is i feel the same way about people who overeat.

: Intrepid_one Jul 6 2004, 02:15 AM

QUOTE (zapatista @ Jul 6 2004, 05:18 AM)
QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 5 2004, 11:27 PM)
I may get slammed for this but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania. Look at all those people who are starving because they don't HAVE any food, are oppressed and living in filth without the basic necessities of life, with problems we can't even begin to conceive. There vertebra’s stick out of there backs because there is no food or water. Not because they want to look as pretty as Christina Agulara in her backless Prada number.

That's not what it's about at all.. get a freakin clue.

then why don't you explain to me your OPINION (and thats all it is to me) what its all about.

: IndicaRain Jul 6 2004, 02:19 AM

Just this: diseases aren't a vanity. People who are ill one way or another should not be blamed for it.

: Sara Jul 6 2004, 02:44 AM

QUOTE (Nishtha @ Jul 6 2004, 10:19 PM)
Just this: diseases aren't a vanity. People who are ill one way or another should not be blamed for it.

that is one crucial point. it is not a vanity.

QUOTE
I do see your point i suppose i should read up on it a little more carefully before I pass such judgment
yeah you should. After reading up on it, from credible sources, please tell me what you think. and if your opinion hasnt changed, i see your opinion and lack of sympathy for them no different from those who have no sympathy for people starving in places like africa. after all, it's all opinions, no? unsure.gif

there are sociocultural factors that may contribute to the development of this disorder. it is not as simple as blaming the media or the tv, but the truth is, we are only human, and we do get influenced by what we see and hear daily. the pressure to be thin falls heavily on us, and dieting is almost the norm. youn girls that diet are at a higher risk of developing aneroxia than those who dont. of course that pressure is not the only factor, because not all of us are suffering from it, so there are other factors involved. the obesession of being so thin really just reflects lack of control in other aspects in their lives. a lot of those aneroxic girls come from families that are very strict with rigid house rules, and by straving themselves, that is one way of expressing control over their bodies and themselves. some family theorists suggest that children that refuse to eat like that are punishing their parents for alienating them at home. many many more possible factors are involved by the way, this is just a sample.

also, people that suffer aneroxia may also have depression and anxiety. do you judge people with depression and anxiety the same way you judge aneroxics?

i cannot believe that in this day and age, some still have hostile views towards people with psychological disorders. ermm.gif


oh and rev79, when they complain about being fat, it's because they have a distorted self image. they actually see themselves a lot fuller than what they are. if you ask an aneroxic girl to point to what body shape on a chart best represents her, she'll pick the fuller one. they truely have a distorted image.

: You are not a slave. Jul 6 2004, 04:08 AM

I bet they don't have anorexia in Etheopia.

: Sara Jul 6 2004, 04:27 AM

QUOTE (You are not a slave. @ Jul 7 2004, 12:08 AM)
I bet they don't have anorexia in Etheopia.

no they dont. they have depression, anxiety, dissociative disorders and other psychological illnesses thu. does it make a difference? eating disorders are psychological disorders.

: Jingle Jul 6 2004, 06:08 AM

Thank you, Sarah, thank you...

This shit people are saying about anorexics is beyond ignorance -- it's pure fucking malice and it makes me seriously sick inside to know that there are people who think like that. I'm not going to say "fuck you, you ignorant slime" but i am going to ask you to really think about what you've said (those of you who have torn apart every single person who is either rich, anorexic, or rich and anorexic; i am neither or which, by the way) -- but you have no clue of what anorexia does to your mind, body, spirit -- heart. You have absolutely no comprehension of how very very horrible of a disease it is...if you are going to hate somebody, hate the the system for telling people what beauty is. Hate those modeling agencies who have lead to the starving, agonizing deaths of so many beautiful beautiful people. Have a heart, they are human beings, saying otherwise makes me think that you have become an unemotional creature, therefore, another product of the machine. Really, what you say is terribly malicious -- terribly sad.gif

-J cry.gif

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 6 2004, 06:15 AM

QUOTE (You are not a slave. @ Jul 6 2004, 12:08 PM)
I bet they don't have anorexia in Etheopia.

no they just make their women do a variety of piercings to mark them as property.

: ratmgirl Jul 6 2004, 06:18 AM

Thank you J!!!
You said exacly what I was thinking. clap2.gif

: Intrepid_one Jul 6 2004, 11:50 AM

OK first of all i am not ignorant, I happen to be an extremely intelligent, compassionate and vigilant person. I thought this was a place where people believed in been able to express there opinion freely. if you disagree that is fine, i respect you and your opinion, but name calling does not get your point across to me.

Blaming "socio-cultural factors" and "the system for telling them what beauty is supposed to be" is ridiculous. Maybe I approach this topic with an air of cynicism, but it’s only because it just goes to show how much the media controls EVERY aspect of your lives. PEOPLE ARE SHEEP. That’s a fact. If I have less sympathy for the damn Olsen twins then I’m sorry, but there are bigger fish to fry, bigger fights to fight.

You guys are great at twisting peoples words around and creating a "spin". Your like little mini PR firms in your own right. I do not lack sympathy for people with phycological problems or people starving in Africa. Just the Olsen twins.

I'm done with this now.


: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 6 2004, 11:58 AM

QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 6 2004, 07:50 PM)
OK first of all i am not ignorant, I happen to be an extremely intelligent, compassionate and vigilant person. I thought this was a place where people believed in been able to express there opinion freely. if you disagree that is fine, i respect you and your opinion, but name calling does not get your point across to me.

Blaming "socio-cultural factors" and "the system for telling them what beauty is supposed to be" is ridiculous. Maybe I approach this topic with an air of cynicism, but it’s only because it just goes to show how much the media controls EVERY aspect of your lives. PEOPLE ARE SHEEP. That’s a fact. If I have less sympathy for the damn Olsen twins then I’m sorry, but there are bigger fish to fry, bigger fights to fight.

You guys are great at twisting peoples words around and creating a "spin". Your like little mini PR firms in your own right. I do not lack sympathy for people with phycological problems or people starving in Africa. Just the Olsen twins.

I'm done with this now.

i just dont understand how we cant have some concern for the rich.

what if zack were anorexic??
we'd be sending him pot brownies to stimulate his appetite and he's kinda rich.

: Intrepid_one Jul 6 2004, 12:03 PM

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE RICH! what are you talking about? Stop taking my my answers out of content.

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 6 2004, 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 6 2004, 08:03 PM)
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE RICH! what are you talking about? Stop taking my my answers out of content.

ok...

but dont you think that even tho the olsens are spoiled shits who deserve some pain that anorexia and bulimia on this level are not fairly compared to being concerned for the poor. we can see the effect it has had on our generation. and most importantly it is necessary to compare this to Magic Johnson testing positive. Magic doesn't get my sympathy for being a sex fiend. But I hope he gets better. And I care to see how he's doing.

: zapatista Jul 6 2004, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 6 2004, 02:50 PM)
Blaming "socio-cultural factors" and "the system for telling them what beauty is supposed to be" is ridiculous. Maybe I approach this topic with an air of cynicism, but it’s only because it just goes to show how much the media controls EVERY aspect of your lives. PEOPLE ARE SHEEP. That’s a fact. If I have less sympathy for the damn Olsen twins then I’m sorry, but there are bigger fish to fry, bigger fights to fight.

You are free to have your opinion and that is fine.. but yours is just that... an opinion.. and not even one based on fact as Sarah's is. I think you are missing the bigger issue here that Sarah and others are trying to get across, this has nothing to do with the Olsen twins.. none of us really give a shit about them, but this coming to the front of media attention sheads light on a epidemic that is happening now.. 3 year olds already concerned with body image.. it's sick.. have you ever heard a 3 year old say they need to diet and mean it? It's sick.. and it needs to be addressed.. if you can't understand that, I dunno what compassion you have that you speak of. It is a MENTAL illness and should be treated as such.

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 6 2004, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (zapatista @ Jul 6 2004, 09:18 PM)
QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 6 2004, 02:50 PM)
Blaming "socio-cultural factors" and "the system for telling them what beauty is supposed to be" is ridiculous. Maybe I approach this topic with an air of cynicism, but it’s only because it just goes to show how much the media controls EVERY aspect of your lives. PEOPLE ARE SHEEP. That’s a fact. If I have less sympathy for the damn Olsen twins then I’m sorry, but there are bigger fish to fry, bigger fights to fight.

You are free to have your opinion and that is fine.. but yours is just that... an opinion.. and not even one based on fact as Sarah's is. I think you are missing the bigger issue here that Sarah and others are trying to get across, this has nothing to do with the Olsen twins.. none of us really give a shit about them, but this coming to the front of media attention sheads light on a epidemic that is happening now.. 3 year olds already concerned with body image.. it's sick.. have you ever heard a 3 year old say they need to diet and mean it? It's sick.. and it needs to be addressed.. if you can't understand that, I dunno what compassion you have that you speak of. It is a MENTAL illness and should be treated as such.

well said...

: Sara Jul 6 2004, 06:41 PM

QUOTE (Intrepid_one @ Jul 7 2004, 07:50 AM)
Blaming "socio-cultural factors" and "the system for telling them what beauty is supposed to be" is ridiculous.

it's not blame, it's causes and reasons. that is radiculous? these observations are made by psychologists and theorists that worked with anorexics and people with eating disorders. unlike your cynical opinion, theirs is formed based on studies and actual work with those people. what's radiculous is you dismissing these studies and aiming your anger at the wrong target. angry at the media so you snap at people with eating disorders, super.

this is not bout the olsen twins, your opinion -->
QUOTE
but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania.
is clearly of anyone with an eating disorder. "people" you said, not the olsen twins. that^^ is very cruel ermm.gif and come to think, im not sure it makes much difference if you said that about the olsen twins. unsure.gif

its not that you are not entitled to your opinion, of course not, and you know that this debate is not about that. it is just a bit shocking to see that people feel so strongly about something without even researching it.

: Casbah Jul 6 2004, 06:55 PM

i like sandwhiches

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 6 2004, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (casbah rebel @ Jul 7 2004, 02:55 AM)
i like sandwhiches

when homer's golfing and sees his club for the sand...

"mmm... an open faced sand-wedge"

: Casbah Jul 6 2004, 07:16 PM

drool.gif laughing.gif cool.gif

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 6 2004, 07:18 PM

we're so funny littlejeans!!! laugh.gif

: Casbah Jul 6 2004, 07:56 PM

laughing.gif someone is sooo gonna take this the wrong way man

: rev79 Jul 6 2004, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (Sarah @ Jul 6 2004, 02:20 AM)


before you guys make such ignorant observations

huh.gif I sincerely hope you weren't referring to me.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 7 2004, 01:02 PM

I know I've come a bit late into this heated debate but I wanna just say that I have studied psychology and that Sarah's comments were definately reflective of what I have learned.

Without trying to go to much into psychology, yes anorexics do have a distorted image of themselves. If you talk to any anorexic person they will tell you they are fat.

The idea of anorexia being a means to gain conrtol of themselves when living in a strict family is far from the idea of megalomania you talked about, rev. I think having control over your own life isn't too much to ask.

No one is challenging your right to have an opinion, from what I can see, what they are challenging your opinion itself. By doing so they are trying to allow you to understand a topic that you saifd you hardly know naything about, so you can develop a more informed opinion.

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 7 2004, 01:04 PM

QUOTE (ley-adam.99 @ Jul 7 2004, 09:02 PM)
I know I've come a bit late into this heated debate but I wanna just say that I have studied psychology and that Sarah's comments were definately reflective of what I have learned.

Without trying to go to much into psychology, yes anorexics do have a distorted image of themselves. If you talk to any anorexic person they will tell you they are fat.

The idea of anorexia being a means to gain conrtol of themselves when living in a strict family is far from the idea of megalomania you talked about, rev. I think having control over your own life isn't too much to ask.

No one is challenging your right to have an opinion, from what I can see, what they are challenging your opinion itself. By doing so they are trying to allow you to understand a topic that you saifd you hardly know naything about, so you can develop a more informed opinion.

welcome aboard ley-adam!!!!


wavenew.gif Crylol.gif

: ley-adam.99 Jul 7 2004, 01:06 PM

Lol thanks. wavenew.gif How goes it?

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 7 2004, 01:09 PM

QUOTE (ley-adam.99 @ Jul 7 2004, 09:06 PM)
Lol thanks. wavenew.gif How goes it?

i really liked that post.

sorry i got sarcasmo on you in THE WALL thread.... sad.gif

: rev79 Jul 7 2004, 09:04 PM

QUOTE (ley-adam.99 @ Jul 7 2004, 04:02 PM)

The idea of anorexia being a means to gain conrtol of themselves when living in a strict family is far from the idea of megalomania you talked about, rev.

I never talked about megalomania. Don't misquote me, please.
I simply said that these kinds of people should remember the poor and hungry when they're purposely vomiting food or outright trashing it.
Believe me, this is a disease can be controlled, without even much help.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 8 2004, 12:46 AM

Sorry Rev, that quote was from Intrepid One. Yeah for the record Rev didn't say that it was Intrepid One.

QUOTE
sorry i got sarcasmo on you in THE WALL thread.... 


HaHa that's OK.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 8 2004, 12:50 AM

QUOTE
I never talked about megalomania. Don't misquote me, please.
I simply said that these kinds of people should remember the poor and hungry when they're purposely vomiting food or outright trashing it.


People with eating disorders don't think rationally like that, and anyway, anorexics don't vomit up their food after, that's bullimia, a totally different eating disorder that involves EATING TOO MUCH.
They can't just think 'Oh yeah I'm being so selfish, people are starving in Africa and here's me not eating'. They have a distorted image of themselves. Even when they are instituionalised and they see other anorexics die in there, they still continue not to eat. It defies common sense and rationality, that's why it's a disorder.

QUOTE
Believe me, this is a disease can be controlled, without even much help.


And this assertion is based on...?

: Holter Jul 8 2004, 09:54 AM

This whole thing is something that i am completely insensitive to. Its a disease produced by vanity and receieves no sympathy from me. sorry.

: Test subject #41 Jul 8 2004, 11:16 AM

Sorry I'm so late first I'd like to post my original thoughts on the topic.

What frustrates me is that people idealize these people like they are so great, because they have money. Fuck money it aint worth anything anyway, people just think it is. Why not idealize someone who works hard and isn't so overly rewarded, like the workers in the sweatshops where her clothes are maid. They constantly have to work over time with no bonuses for doing so, and for just enough to get their families by. And yet they wake up every morning just to do it again, because they have to, not so they can where designer clothes and have wide screen TV's. Fuck Mary-Kate*, Fuck J-Lo, and Fuck Donald Trump.
"While some insist on bliss, Others struggle just to exist"
-WARSAWPACK (great band you guys should check them out.)

*But then again I don't think anybody here has actually met the Mary-Kate, you can't judge her on what side of her the media chooses to show you, and it's my belief that deep down every human is a good, caring person. She most likely doesn't understand what the world is truly like, and quite obviously doesn't know what’s really important.

Now for my thoughts after reading,

When it comes to the disorder and how her popularity (which I hate so much.) is brining attention to it, yeah I suppose it is good but, not so much because of the attention to the disorder but, more because it shows us how the media can suppress our very own instincts, this goes beyond eating. If we truly look at how much our greed and self consciousness are inflamed by the media we might be able to find out what type of people we would be with out it. Is being competitive actually part of human nature or is that just as likely to be there as this extreme vanity?

: rev79 Jul 8 2004, 11:21 AM

QUOTE (ley-adam.99 @ Jul 8 2004, 03:50 AM)
anorexics don't vomit up their food after, that's bullimia, a totally different eating disorder that involves EATING TOO MUCH.


Yes, friend, that's why I said this:

QUOTE
I simply said that these kinds of people should remember the poor and hungry when they're purposely vomiting food or outright trashing it.


I hold bulemics and anorexics in the same regard. Either way you've wasted food because of vanity. This is a weakness that is focused in the brain. I referred to it previously as a disease, which was a mistake. Its not a disease. Its something people such as the Olsen twins conjure up for attention. Who cares, right? These people aren't sick. Let them waste- they've chosen to.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 8 2004, 12:41 PM

QUOTE
I hold bulemics and anorexics in the same regard. Either way you've wasted food because of vanity. This is a weakness that is focused in the brain. I referred to it previously as a disease, which was a mistake. Its not a disease. Its something people such as the Olsen twins conjure up for attention. Who cares, right? These people aren't sick. Let them waste- they've chosen to.


I'm not sure if it is a diseas I'm pretty sure it is defined as a psychological disorder so I agree with you on that point.
But just because you choose to do something doesn't mean stopping is just a matter of choice. Ask any smoker who wants to quit. Anorexics try to start eating again, but it's not that easy. Of course, you'll never be able to understand that since you haven't suffered from annoreixa and you seem to have a total lack of empathy for these people.

These people ARE sick, since they have been diagnosed with anorexia nervosa, a nervous loss of appetite which is defined as a disorder which requires treatment, in any medical journal.

: Holter Jul 8 2004, 01:17 PM

QUOTE (ley-adam.99 @ Jul 8 2004, 01:41 PM)
These people ARE sick, since they have been diagnosed with anorexia nervosa, a nervous loss of appetite which is defined as a disorder which requires treatment, in any medical journal.

medical journal or not, its still a disease conjured up by the mind as a direct result of that individuals insecurity over vanity.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 8 2004, 01:24 PM

QUOTE
medical journal or not, its still a disease conjured up by the mind as a direct result of that individuals insecurity over vanity.


Who isn't insecure about vanity? Everyone is worried about how they look to some extent, and many people are under pressure to look good, especially if they are in the public eye.
Many diseases are conjured up by the mind, such as paranoia, but you can't treat these diseases or disorders in a lesser way than a disease with causes rooted in the physical rather than mental.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 8 2004, 01:29 PM

Actually, as a side thought, loads of psychological studies have shown that there is a high concordance rate for anorexia in indentical twins if one twin has it, meaning it's quite likely that Ashley Olsen has anorexia or will develop it too.

: Jingle Jul 8 2004, 02:03 PM

QUOTE (Holter @ Jul 8 2004, 09:17 PM)
QUOTE (ley-adam.99 @ Jul 8 2004, 01:41 PM)
These people ARE sick, since they have been diagnosed with anorexia nervosa, a nervous loss of appetite which is defined as a disorder which requires treatment, in any medical journal.

medical journal or not, its still a disease conjured up by the mind as a direct result of that individuals insecurity over vanity.

Yes, a disease, it doesn't matter how or why, it's a disease like alcoholism, like heart disease, and like cancer. Not everything can be put into black and white. Check your shit...

-J

: Holter Jul 8 2004, 02:37 PM

My shit is fine thanks.

And I dont think that Alcoholism is a disease either. Its a problem for that person - but not a disease IMO.

Oh and BTW - the word disease is only used in the matters of the mind in a figurative manner for moral habits and character - not a definitive one. So its not a disease which be definition is an ailment that is an alteration to the functionality and state of its organs. An interruption of the performance of these organs. Anorexia and Bullemia are a mental condition caused by the persons experiences and is not a direct result of a ohysical ailment. Its a mental problem - not a disease.

: Holter Jul 8 2004, 02:46 PM

Oh and i am only discussing the anorexia that we see in people who bring it on themselves. There are forms of anorexia that can be brought on by other diseases - like cacer or AIDS where that disease has the side effect of a loss of appetite. Even then i dont consider Anorexia to be a disease - more of a byproduct of said disease.

: Sara Jul 8 2004, 04:58 PM

just so you guys don't get your facts mixed up.

Aneroxia: an eating disorder characterized by maintenance of an abnormally low body weight, distortions of body image, intense fears of gaining weight, and in females amenorrhea.

psychological disorder: abnormal behaviour patterns that involve a disturbance of psychological functioning or behaviour.

and oh, aneroxia does not mean loss of apetite. those people do feel hungry, they just starve themselves. it is very rare that aneroxics losetheir apetite.

QUOTE
This is a weakness that is focused in the brain. I referred to it previously as a disease, which was a mistake. Its not a disease. Its something people such as the Olsen twins conjure up for attention. Who cares, right? These people aren't sick. Let them waste- they've chosen to.
Rubbish. it's a cry for help. it is a coping mechanism with life stressors, just like any other psychological disorder, like depression and anxiety and dissosiative disorders. all weaknesses, no? do you look at them the same? do you judge people with psychological disorders this way too? as attention seekers? what aboutu people that are not like the olsen twins?

QUOTE
This whole thing is something that i am completely insensitive to. Its a disease produced by vanity and receieves no sympathy from me. sorry.
Rubbish, read above.

QUOTE
There are forms of anorexia that can be brought on by other diseases - like cacer or AIDS where that disease has the side effect of a loss of appetite. Even then i dont consider Anorexia to be a disease - more of a byproduct of said disease.
ok i have never came across this before. can you please show me where you got this info from? thanks. smile.gif

what do you guys actually know about eating disorders? KNOW about it, in terms of facts and studies and all that? are you guys aware that people have different ways of coping with life and stressors and not everyone can be as mentally strong as you are?

and if your sister, mother, auntie, girlfriend, daughter had to deal with anorexia or another eating disorder, would you fail to sympethize? would you not care? would you be insensitive to it? because if you fail to sympethize with them then, then maybe you have a problem? in a pathalogical sense? unsure.gif

: zapatista Jul 8 2004, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (Sarah @ Jul 8 2004, 07:58 PM)
because if you fail to sympethize with them then, then maybe you have a problem? in a pathalogical sense? unsure.gif

Classic!

: Jingle Jul 8 2004, 08:26 PM

Holter, i didn't want to have to say this, but you're a dumb fuck. You're an opinionated fuck with a pseudo-intellectual, butt-fuck mind. I hope life is incredible with mommy and daddy taking you through the motions. grin.gif

-J

: Test subject #41 Jul 8 2004, 08:58 PM

QUOTE
Holter, i didn't want to have to say this, but you're a dumb fuck. You're an opinionated fuck with a pseudo-intellectual, butt-fuck mind. I hope life is incredible with mommy and daddy taking you through the motions. grin.gif

-J


Wow, attack the argument not the person making it other wise it's you who looks wrong.

And remember freedom of speech,
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it".
- attributed to Voltaire

: rev79 Jul 8 2004, 09:25 PM

Yeah, rubbish- good word for this so-called 'disease'!
Brought on by weak-minded people for a weak-minded society- its a selfish fucking condition, and I view anyone that decides to bring it upon themselves as deserving of everything painful it might bring them!
My family? Of course I wouldn't be so bombastic towards them about the situation, but I would certainly sit them down and shove some food in their throat if it came to that. First, we would have a serious chat- apply a little pressure in a few of the right places and you wouldn't need any kind of therapy or doctors to treat this sudden urge to decide to NOT EAT.
Again, rubbish.

: Jingle Jul 8 2004, 10:24 PM

Rev, I have liked you since i joined this forum around this time last year, i've always respected you, your opionions; and i think you're funny and pretty cool, but please understand how dire a situation anorexia is. Nobody deserves it. Until it hits home you can't possibly understand the pain that it brings. You can say things like "if it was my sister i'd show her: stuff food down her mouth, etc" but it is so so so so much deeper than that. How long can you go without eating? Anorexics eat so little that their hair falls out, bodily systems fail-- they die. Many become masochists because they lose the ability too feel emotions. Other psychological disorders jump into the mix... It is a horrible problem brought about by a horrible world. We can't put all the blame on the victims; they're caught in the middle of it. I hate it too. It's a stupid fucking disease and i hate it. I hate what it does to you. I hate how it tears apart the people watching it happen to their loved ones...I HATE IT SO MUCH! You have no clue, man. I used to say shit like a lot of the other people "well, they choose vanity over this and that" but there is so much more to it. So much... cry.gif

-J

: rev79 Jul 8 2004, 10:35 PM

Ok..
I'll take a bit of a timeout and say that I'm well aware of the pressure today to look and act a certain way, in which others would like..especially for people of a celebrity nature. However, said people should be intelligent enough to avoid these dangers and be their own person. This is where ignorance falls into place. You can't treat this the same as a condition such as liver disease..an eating disorder is a decision-making process, unlike the other obviously.
What these people need is a good goddamn kick in the butt, not psychological counseling. ermm.gif

: Jingle Jul 8 2004, 11:22 PM

Thanks, Rev, i really respect you for that -- truly

QUOTE
What these people need is a good goddamn kick in the butt, not psychological counseling. 


I'd compromise with you and say both a goddamn kick in the butt and some psychological couseling wink.gif

-J

: Holter Jul 8 2004, 11:33 PM

QUOTE (Jingle @ Jul 8 2004, 09:26 PM)
Holter, i didn't want to have to say this, but you're a dumb fuck. You're an opinionated fuck with a pseudo-intellectual, butt-fuck mind. I hope life is incredible with mommy and daddy taking you through the motions. grin.gif

-J

Its pretty funny to me that when you try to insult me you just kind of run away from a good discussion by resorting to using fuck in several different ways. Congratulations for making this personal when it wasnt. Maybe you had an issue with this? I dont know - so what I posted wasnt directed at you - so chill out man. HAHA i really cant believe you went after me so harshly not to mention personally for just posting my views - i look at you totally differently now.


posted by rev
QUOTE
Ok..
I'll take a bit of a timeout and say that I'm well aware of the pressure today to look and act a certain way, in which others would like..especially for people of a celebrity nature. However, said people should be intelligent enough to avoid these dangers and be their own person. This is where ignorance falls into place. You can't treat this the same as a condition such as liver disease..an eating disorder is a decision-making process, unlike the other obviously.
What these people need is a good goddamn kick in the butt, not psychological counseling.


Rev this is basically the exact way I feel about it. I wont go up to someone and say to them - you have an eating disorder and its your fault (or something like that) - i understand that they are struggling with something, im just not sympathetic to it. But anyways - yeah i agree with all that you posted.

sarah
QUOTE
Rubbish, read above.


Actually no its not rubbish - its my opinion. I personally believe that this is something a person brings on themself.


QUOTE
what do you guys actually know about eating disorders? KNOW about it, in terms of facts and studies and all that? are you guys aware that people have different ways of coping with life and stressors and not everyone can be as mentally strong as you are?


I have known several people who were anorexic in college. I would never purposely starve myself so that i looked better to the people around me. I really dont give a shit what people think of me when they see me.

QUOTE
and if your sister, mother, auntie, girlfriend, daughter had to deal with anorexia or another eating disorder, would you fail to sympethize? would you not care? would you be insensitive to it? because if you fail to sympethize with them then, then maybe you have a problem? in a pathalogical sense?


Sure i would feel bad for them, and i would obviously try to help - but that doesnt mean that deep down i still dont think that they brought it on themself.

Now your saying that I have a problem? unsure.gif

: Jingle Jul 8 2004, 11:43 PM

i'll agree to disagree with you Holter. I probably should apologize for sort of freaking out on and i will: I am sorry. But i have had to deal with someone i love; someone i care deeply care about completely torn apart by anorexia and it's difficult to cope with and watch happen. It starts off mild and selfish i think like a lot of you have said, but once it really takes hold it completely rips out your heart and everyone who loves you too. I'm sorry, but it is just very frustrating.

-J

: elisium Jul 8 2004, 11:43 PM

i dont know about you guys, but there have been times that i have not eatten for like a whole week. not cause i dont want to eat im just not hungry. i know it is not good. but im not hungry. this has happened on various occacions. i have not eatten for like three days. i dont know if there is something wrong with me. unsure.gif huh.gif i dont think it is very healthy. wacko.gif is there somthing i can take. wacko.gif

besides smoking weed. (the munchies) cause i dont smoke.

: Jingle Jul 8 2004, 11:45 PM

QUOTE (elisium @ Jul 9 2004, 07:43 AM)
i dont know about you guys, but there have been times that i have not eatten for like a whole week. not cause i dont want to eat im just not hungry. i know it is not good. but im not hungry. this has happened on various occacions. i have not eatten for like three days. i dont know if there is something wrong with me. unsure.gif huh.gif i dont think it is very healthy. wacko.gif is there somthing i can take. wacko.gif

besides smoking weed. (the munchies) cause i dont smoke.

i just got back from camping for nine days. the same thing happened to me. i lost 8 lbs over the trip unsure.gif there are times like that for me too, it's like you just cannot eat, like when you take a lot of ecstacy or crystal meth...

-J

: elisium Jul 8 2004, 11:49 PM

yeah but i dont do many drugs atleast none like that. (no offense) i lost like 25 in one week i go out skating alot and hiking and stuff. i dont know just not hungry.


: Jingle Jul 8 2004, 11:54 PM

oh, i know. i was just using it as a comparison. when you do speeders you aren't hungry either. it's not because i do those things although it happens when it does.

-J

: elisium Jul 8 2004, 11:57 PM

naw im always on downers.

like rx drugs.i mean once i tried heroine and that turned me off to any other drugs. that one was hard. i felt like shit the next day. only did it once and never again will i do it. nonono.gif

: rev79 Jul 9 2004, 12:00 AM

What else is there to say to you or anyone with an eating disorder of that type? You need to eat. Its quite simple. Do it or die.

: elisium Jul 9 2004, 12:03 AM

yeah i am now ill make a sandwitch just to feed myself im just trying to figure out why im not hungry.

: Sara Jul 9 2004, 05:48 AM

QUOTE (rev79 @ Jul 9 2004, 06:35 PM)
said people should be intelligent enough to avoid these dangers and be their own person...an eating disorder is a decision-making process, unlike the other obviously.
What these people need is a good goddamn kick in the butt, not psychological counseling. ermm.gif

what people should be, is different from what people actually are.

reading your posts i am a bit confused. sometimes it seems like u lack empathy, but at others it seems you do care for them, so yeah i'll assume you care, just because... as for the comment about "eat or you die", that comment is actually used by therapists, in a more compassionate tone, but yeah they do say that. as for "making choices", i'm not sure how much of a choice a person has when they under so much pressure. people sometimes crack, and this is not about the looks...truthfully there are so many factors that contribute to eating disorders. people that stop eating are reacting, they are coping. the looks are only a very small part of it; like i said, family is a big thing too. i am glad to see you genuinely care rev.

: Sara Jul 9 2004, 05:54 AM

QUOTE (Holter @ Jul 9 2004, 07:33 PM)
Actually no its not rubbish - its my opinion.  I personally believe that this is something a person brings on themself.

it is rubbish when this is how you made your conclusion -->
QUOTE
I have known several people who were anorexic in college.  I would never purposely starve myself so that i looked better to the people around me.  I really dont give a shit what people think of me when they see me.
^^--- um, it is not about that, how many times do i have to say this?!? i cant believe you are feeling so strongly bout this, when you dont even know much about the actual disorder...that is so strange unsure.gif

as for you showing concern over family memebers with that disorder, so you care? or not? are you sensitive to it? i really hope you are...i really do ermm.gif

as for the comment about the problem you may have, yeah if you cannot sympethize or care for family memebers with eating disorders, because you dont care and because you are insensitive to it, well yeah that is pathological.

: Intrepid_one Jul 9 2004, 08:37 AM

give me a fucking break

: Sara Jul 9 2004, 08:18 PM

QUOTE
Intrepid_one Posted Today, 04:37 AM
  give me a fucking break


huh.gif sure...um...you can take a break unsure.gif




mellow.gif ignorance is bliss.

: Fanatical Radical Jul 9 2004, 10:23 PM

QUOTE(elisium @ Jul 9 2004, 07:43 AM)
i dont know about you guys, but there have been times that i have not eatten for like a whole week. not cause i dont want to eat im just not hungry. i know it is not good. but im not hungry. this has happened on various occacions. i have not eatten for like three days. i dont know if there  is something wrong with me. unsure.gif  huh.gif  i dont think it is very healthy. wacko.gif  is there somthing i can take.  wacko.gif

besides smoking weed. (the munchies) cause i dont smoke.
[right][snapback]119001[/snapback][/right]


I'm the same way, I have hardly ate today. it usually only happens in the summer, and is probably the result of a combination of the heat and sunstroke.

you should try Marijuana, its the best cure I have found. It also works for insomnia, hangovers, boredom, nausea, stress, depression, THC withdrawls... blink.gif sad.gif

( ^just a joke^ wink.gif)

-----

as far as people magazine and other hollywood-obsessed magazines go, I could care less. But an eating disorder is a very dangerious illness that is only promoted by these magazines.

If you serriously care about people with eating disorders then you'll stop buying magazines like People and Us; they're responsible for promoting the belief that skinny is sexy. I wonder how many less teens would develope eating disorders if natural bodyshapes were seen as being attractive.

besides, confidence and self acceptance are way more attractive; and I'd choose someone with some meat to them over a stick girl anyday. Anyone else agree?

: ley-adam.99 Jul 10 2004, 06:21 AM

QUOTE
what do you guys actually know about eating disorders? KNOW about it, in terms of facts and studies and all that? are you guys aware that people have different ways of coping with life and stressors and not everyone can be as mentally strong as you are?


I have studied eating disorders as part of my pshychology A level, which may explain why I have empathy for people suffering from the disease.
I know you siad earlier that anorexics have appetites, but I think the phrase anoreixa nervosa, means literally, nervous lost of appetite.

I can't really understand why some people posting on this thread seem to have such an irrational lack of sympathy for annorexics. I would probably say that it is due to a lack of undersatnding and study of the condition, but I dunno. I guess you'll never really understand a disease unless you happened to get it, to which of course you will say 'Id never get annorexia, cos I'm not that stupid' or whatever.

: rev79 Jul 10 2004, 09:59 AM

QUOTE
, to which of course you will say 'Id never get annorexia, cos I'm not that stupid' or whatever.
[right][snapback]119142[/snapback][/right]


That's precisely the point- you don't just get Anorexia like you get Mad Cow.

: lemming Jul 10 2004, 10:31 PM

QUOTE(Intrepid_one @ Jul 6 2004, 04:27 AM)
I may get slammed for this but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania. Look at all those people who are starving because they don't HAVE any food, are oppressed and living in filth without the basic necessities of life, with problems we can't even begin to conceive. There vertebra’s stick out of there backs because there is no food or water. Not because they want to look as pretty as Christina Agulara in her backless Prada number.
[right][snapback]118189[/snapback][/right]


You got a lack of sympathy for yourself because you blame other people for your problems, they will never be fixed unless you face them and stop distracting yourself.

QUOTE(Holter @ Jul 8 2004, 09:17 PM)
QUOTE(ley-adam.99 @ Jul 8 2004, 01:41 PM)
These people ARE sick, since they have been diagnosed with anorexia nervosa, a nervous loss of appetite which is defined as a disorder which requires treatment, in any medical journal.

medical journal or not, its still a disease conjured up by the mind as a direct result of that individuals insecurity over vanity.
[right][snapback]118855[/snapback][/right]


Everything is psychological, problems that can't be held in your head no more, turn into physical problems.

QUOTE(Jingle @ Jul 9 2004, 04:26 AM)
Holter, i didn't want to have to say this, but you're a dumb fuck.  You're an opinionated fuck with a pseudo-intellectual, butt-fuck mind.  I hope life is incredible with mommy and daddy taking you through the motions.  grin.gif

-J
[right][snapback]118948[/snapback][/right]


He is just conditioned from the society and thinks he isn't, alot of people haven't had a strong enough epiphany to be on the same conscious level you are, I'm a man and I know what the words really mean I'd like to think that puts me on a higher level(you know what thats about). I like to think we are going sane in a crazy world. I've had disorders and still do, we all do, none of us are above it. I had and still do have hypoglycemia and bought on some angst which help me get a emotional detracted view of the world as it really is. I realized family comes first, then tribe. Most of the problems people have now is because the tribe we don't relate with has used force to get into our family lives and destroyed with their superficial society with the help of conditioning of many things like self doubt using the power of tv, radio and all that jazz. I was fucked up and didn't know, thats why I use to be into extreme sports like skateboarding or bmx because the adrenline use to help me feel nothing and its all good to get away from it once in a while because too much of anything is bad for you.

And don't use the same ways of force you learned from society to try to fix things, you have to come up with your own way that is inside of you and help guide the lost souls. And just a reminder, I'm not a perfect person. wink.gif use your angst to detact yourself and look at yourself and friends from a alien view so you can have a truely logical understanding and help them. I don't mean to use the cliches but I belive most things that don't kill you, make you stronger, not all.

: Sara Jul 10 2004, 11:16 PM

QUOTE(rev79 @ Jul 11 2004, 05:59 AM)
QUOTE
, to which of course you will say 'Id never get annorexia, cos I'm not that stupid' or whatever.
[right][snapback]119142[/snapback][/right]


That's precisely the point- you don't just get Anorexia like you get Mad Cow.
[right][snapback]119190[/snapback][/right]



the only problem with that comparison is that alot of disorders take time and dont "just happen", like depression and schizophrenia. for them to be diagnosed as that, they have to occur over a period of time, and they develop. same goes for eating disorders.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 11 2004, 07:38 AM

QUOTE
That's precisely the point- you don't just get Anorexia like you get Mad Cow


I wasn't implying that you do just get anorexia, I was saying that you have a total ncomprehensible lack of empathy for people with eating disorders that is unbecoming of a zdlr fan.

: rev79 Jul 11 2004, 01:25 PM


QUOTE
you have a total ncomprehensible lack of empathy for people with eating disorders that is unbecoming of a zdlr fan.
[right][snapback]119441[/snapback][/right]


And this has what to do with me being a RATM fan? Nothing... unsure.gif

: lemming Jul 11 2004, 01:25 PM

I think of schizophrenia as going sane in a crazy world.

: Casbah Jul 11 2004, 01:58 PM

^well if thats what youre having to tell yourself in order to cope lemming...then i suppose its okay ermm.gif

: letsgetreal Jul 11 2004, 06:49 PM

Man, i cant believe so much of your posts in this thread. As i began to read i wanted to quote them all... but ill just generally say that there is so much ignorance in this thread, and that so many opinions here came from close minded people... and THAT is what has nothing to do with being a RATM fan.

Eating disorders have nothing to do with being selfish, or vanity or anything. Lucky us, Sarah was here to post some truth. Eating disorders are caused by so many different reasons, and nut just the pressure of society, which i still dont know why you guys critizy it so much, since we all agree here how society ways of reaching people should be changed, and how people should be re educated for a better tomorrow.

Ley Adam, bulimia is NOT eating too much. Its not like boulimics problem is that they eat too much. Bulimia is just another way of self punishment. One of the bigger roots of eating disorders is hating yourself, and eat large amout of food to after throw up is just another way of punishment. Actually, most of the times, the people that suffers from an eating disorder goes from anorexic circles to bulimic and so. And nope, apetite does not go away in anorexia (not normally).

Its funny how the people that are posting somehow not-feeling-simpathy for the anorexia-bulimia problem are the ones that know less about it. If you people knew... actually, if someone close to you was going through it, you would probably get informed to help her/him better.. and you would find out what is really about. The comparison between eating disorders and starving people was pretty ignorant. Eating disorders have existed through years, and yeah, they have grown with this whole beauty-image-status code built by the capitalism media... and yet you guys say its their problem. Yeah, you probably think eating disorder affect to rich ass white girls with no other concernes that themselves. You might think that a bulimic person doesnt have concerns for starvation, doesnt care about the food they throw up, they just do it because they are weak. But if you knew how strong they can be (and i know this), and how hard it is their fight, you would most likely shut the fuck up. SOme doctor said, i dont know who, that eating disorders were the cancer of the mind, this is pretty accurace of how it works. It starts off with different triggers, and it ends up being involved in every part of your life. You guys are not just "posting opinions" like someone said. You are being disrespectful with a problem that you dont care because you know shit about it.

: rev79 Jul 11 2004, 07:26 PM

^Looks like its a matter of opinion. I certainly don't live according to some textbooks. IMO, if you're wasting good food, you should be punished. If you're eating too much good food, you should be punished. You're not going to throw out any statistic or sob story that will affect my thinking.

To the youth of America who decided to create this 'disease' for attention: ROLL WITH IT.

: letsgetreal Jul 11 2004, 07:34 PM

QUOTE
^Looks like its a matter of opinion. I certainly don't live according to some textbooks. IMO, if you're wasting good food, you should be punished. If you're eating too much good food, you should be punished. You're not going to throw out any statistic or sob story that will affect my thinking.

To the youth of America who decided to create this 'disease' for attention: ROLL WITH IT.


So again, you think the youth "created" it, the people...as i said eating disorders have existed throughout history, it is just that they were not common as today... and anyway, you rather blame the people, not the media, fashion culture with its empty values, etc. Its obvious you dont know what you are talking about, i dont know why you keep posting. You think its the people´s fault, you are being unaware of what happens. Again, you are not seeing further than your nose.

: Test subject #41 Jul 11 2004, 07:53 PM

QUOTE
if you're wasting good food, you should be punished


Why do you believe this? What does punishment achieve?
What if you waste money on cigarettes should you be punished then?
What if you waste it on heroin to feed your addiction?
We are all human here shit happens,
Have none of you guys done anything to fit in or to be liked that you might regret?

"To error is human, to forgive divine."

: Sara Jul 11 2004, 08:24 PM

having an educated opinion certainly does not mean living by the textbooks unsure.gif

: Nino Jul 12 2004, 01:45 PM

ok ive not been in any of this thread because im very busy with stuff but anyway. Firstly i like to respond to the person who commented on hating rich people and i would like to ask why. Also i cant believe that some people are questioning the realness, in lack of a better word, of anorexia. Its a disease simple as that and maybe different factors contribute to it but i dont think anyone can say its bullshit and dismiss a person with it as stupid. I personally believe its the same as most other diseases as in the fact that they can't or will not be chosen by the individual, as cancer is not chosen and cannot be totally stopped from happening then neither can anorexia. I may have missed a shed load of stuff in this topic which i proberbly have but i thought i would post seeming i havent for a while and i wanted to respond to such a topic.

: rev79 Jul 12 2004, 01:53 PM

QUOTE(amaru @ Jul 12 2004, 04:45 PM)
I personally believe its the same as most other diseases as in the fact that they can't or will not be chosen by the individual, as cancer is not chosen and cannot be totally stopped from happening then neither can anorexia.
[right][snapback]119779[/snapback][/right]


Bullshit. When you choose to eat nothing, eat then vomit, or overeat, its a conscious course of action and no one is to blame but you.

You're telling me you wouldn't be able to stop yourself from doing these things? Wow, I must now file you in the weak-minded individual category. Sorry.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 12 2004, 02:10 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE
you have a total ncomprehensible lack of empathy for people with eating disorders that is unbecoming of a zdlr fan.






And this has what to do with me being a RATM fan? Nothing...



I haven't been on this forum for a while but fortunately letsgetreal answered this question for me:

QUOTE
Man, i cant believe so much of your posts in this thread. As i began to read i wanted to quote them all... but ill just generally say that there is so much ignorance in this thread, and that so many opinions here came from close minded people... and THAT is what has nothing to do with being a RATM fan.


QUOTE
Ley Adam, bulimia is NOT eating too much. Its not like boulimics problem is that they eat too much. Bulimia is just another way of self punishment. One of the bigger roots of eating disorders is hating yourself, and eat large amout of food to after throw up is just another way of punishment. Actually, most of the times, the people that suffers from an eating disorder goes from anorexic circles to bulimic and so. And nope, apetite does not go away in anorexia (not normally).


Bullimia is a condition where a person binges and purges.  Binging is where a person eats an amount of food in a period of time that is way over the normal amount people eat in that time.  This is then compensated for by purging.  There are 2 types of purging:
1) Vigorous exercise
2) Making yourself sick.

So bullimia is eating too much, followed by purging the food, which is why bullimics reatin an average weight, rather than being too much under or over weight.

QUOTE
Its funny how the people that are posting somehow not-feeling-simpathy for the anorexia-bulimia problem are the ones that know less about it. If you people knew... actually, if someone close to you was going through it, you would probably get informed to help her/him better.. and you would find out what is really about. The comparison between eating disorders and starving people was pretty ignorant. Eating disorders have existed through years, and yeah, they have grown with this whole beauty-image-status code built by the capitalism media... and yet you guys say its their problem. Yeah, you probably think eating disorder affect to rich ass white girls with no other concernes that themselves. You might think that a bulimic person doesnt have concerns for starvation, doesnt care about the food they throw up, they just do it because they are weak. But if you knew how strong they can be (and i know this), and how hard it is their fight, you would most likely shut the fuck up. SOme doctor said, i dont know who, that eating disorders were the cancer of the mind, this is pretty accurace of how it works. It starts off with different triggers, and it ends up being involved in every part of your life. You guys are not just "posting opinions" like someone said. You are being disrespectful with a problem that you dont care because you know shit about it


I agree totally with this and it is what I have been trying to say the whole time, if you read my other posts.


QUOTE
Bullshit. When you choose to eat nothing, eat then vomit, or overeat, its a conscious course of action and no one is to blame but you.

You're telling me you wouldn't be able to stop yourself from doing these things? Wow, I must now file you in the weak-minded individual category. Sorry.


I can't believe after all this you are still spouting this ignorant bullshit. And amaru is not weak minded, but rather informed and empathic.

: rev79 Jul 12 2004, 02:45 PM

QUOTE(rev79 @ Jul 11 2004, 10:26 PM)
^Looks like its a matter of opinion. I certainly don't live according to some textbooks. IMO, if you're wasting good food, you should be punished. If you're eating too much good food, you should be punished. You're not going to throw out any statistic or sob story that will affect my thinking.

To the youth of America who decided to create this 'disease' for attention: ROLL WITH IT.
[right][snapback]119584[/snapback][/right]


There's nothing else for me to say here. If you have an eating disorder, don't expect sympathy from too many people, except possibly your family. Its not an epidemic. Its not even a disease. If you'll notice, the majority of the people with this condition are teens and young adults. That should tell you something- and that something is they are reaching out, give them attention- HELP THEM with the so-called 'struggles' in their life. They know what they're doing is improper. If they weren't doing that, they'd be snorting coke.

: Test subject #41 Jul 12 2004, 03:30 PM

QUOTE
Firstly i like to respond to the person who commented on hating rich people and i would like to ask why.


If your talking about this,

QUOTE
What frustrates me is that people idealize these people like they are so great, because they have money. Fuck money it aint worth anything anyway, people just think it is. Why not idealize someone who works hard and isn't so overly rewarded, like the workers in the sweatshops where her clothes are maid. They constantly have to work over time with no bonuses for doing so, and for just enough to get their families by. And yet they wake up every morning just to do it again, because they have to, not so they can where designer clothes and have wide screen TV's. Fuck Mary-Kate*, Fuck J-Lo, and Fuck Donald Trump.


Then you completely missed the point, which was that I hate that the media makes gods of these people, not the people themselves.

Or if you were wondering how this relates to the discussion it's because to begin with it was about Mary Kate and her anorexia, which for some reason is "news".

: letsgetreal Jul 12 2004, 04:26 PM



So bullimia is eating too much, followed by purging the food, which is why bullimics reatin an average weight, rather than being too much under or over weight.

A bulimic person would eat just one sandwich, and yet, throw it up... this is what i ment when i said its not eating too much.. as that is not the essence of the problem, you know? They could have half a coke, and they would feel so bad theyll throw it up.



QUOTE
I agree totally with this and it is what I have been trying to say the whole time, if you read my other posts.


I know, dont get me wrong, i wasnt referring to you at all in my post. The only thing about your post that i wanted to speficy a lil more was that it was eating too much.. since as ive said its not even neccessary to eat too much, but the rest of my post was referred to people that say things like the following:


QUOTE
Bullshit. When you choose to eat nothing, eat then vomit, or overeat, its a conscious course of action and no one is to blame but you.

You're telling me you wouldn't be able to stop yourself from doing these things? Wow, I must now file you in the weak-minded individual category. Sorry.


You have no idea what you are talking about... and you are still convinced in your own ignorance, not even listening to the facts you hear. You are the weak minded. Sorry.





: letsgetreal Jul 12 2004, 04:27 PM

Haha wtf, i still dont quote things right... levy adam, the first paragraph of my post here ^ was a quote from yours, just clarifying.

: lemming Jul 13 2004, 02:29 AM

rev79 you sound like a capitalist, yet rail against them with a rolls with the punches type attitude. Sounds to me like you just on a power trip, some kind of sadist that got beat up as a child unable to feel real deep compassion. My sadist side wishes you go in life unfulfilled trying to fuck random people, I don't really feel that way. My vain side wishes you luck in finding the happiness. Or at least into something constructive.

: Sara Jul 13 2004, 03:05 AM

^ he actually happens to be a nice guy ermm.gif ...just stubborn i guess ermm.gif

: rev79 Jul 13 2004, 08:19 AM

QUOTE(lemming @ Jul 13 2004, 05:29 AM)
rev79 you sound like a capitalist, yet rail against them with a rolls with the punches type attitude. Sounds to me like you just on a power trip, some kind of sadist that got beat up as a child unable to feel real deep compassion. My sadist side wishes you go in life unfulfilled trying to fuck random people, I don't really feel that way. My vain side wishes you luck in finding the happiness. Or at least into something constructive.
[right][snapback]119961[/snapback][/right]


rolleyes.gif

Oop..somebody get me pegged a bit wrong. Makes alot of sense considering my whole reason for arguing this is the fact that people with little or no food just might not be getting their cut because of people like Little Miss Sickly Olsen or Harry the Hippo.


: ley-adam.99 Jul 13 2004, 09:30 AM

QUOTE
Haha wtf, i still dont quote things right... levy adam, the first paragraph of my post here ^ was a quote from yours, just clarifying.


Yeah no problem I understand.


: ley-adam.99 Jul 13 2004, 09:33 AM

QUOTE
Oop..somebody get me pegged a bit wrong. Makes alot of sense considering my whole reason for arguing this is the fact that people with little or no food just might not be getting their cut because of people like Little Miss Sickly Olsen or Harry the Hippo.


Lol I love when people say stuff like this, that makes totally no sense. Like when you don't want to finish your dinner, and your Mum says 'There's kids in Africa starving'.

What has people in 1st world countries not eating their food got to do with people starving in other countries? How is Mary Kate's anorexia casuing people to starve? If she wasn't annorexic, would some kid in Africa get to eat tonight?

: Nino Jul 13 2004, 12:11 PM

QUOTE
If your talking about this,


Actually no i was talking about another post sorry to make all yoru typing irrelevant.

QUOTE
Oop..somebody get me pegged a bit wrong. Makes alot of sense considering my whole reason for arguing this is the fact that people with little or no food just might not be getting their cut because of people like Little Miss Sickly Olsen or Harry the Hippo.


Or they might not be getting there cut due to the number of obest people that reside in your country or am i incorrect. I cant understand why you are that bothered over a olsen twin personally i have no idea who they are and have never seen them but i dont really care if they are throwing up food. Dont tell me you have never thrown food away or ordered to much. I can understand why you would be so annoyed at such a waste of food because of something you cant understand which is fine i cant understand why people cut themselves when there depressed but i think this person throwing up there food isnt such a crime as the amount of food supermarkets throw out everyday because of shit guidlines told to be put on "gone off" food or the fact that people always buy food from the bottom of the freezer because its newer or even that some nobheads check for the newest sale by date now that is pathetic.

QUOTE
rev79 you sound like a capitalist, yet rail against them with a rolls with the punches type attitude. Sounds to me like you just on a power trip, some kind of sadist that got beat up as a child unable to feel real deep compassion. My sadist side wishes you go in life unfulfilled trying to fuck random people, I don't really feel that way. My vain side wishes you luck in finding the happiness. Or at least into something constructive.


Ok first sentence didnt make any sense all i got from it was capitalist which i assume your not viewing as something wrong as you have been selling it off for so long now. Also how do you figure out hes on a power trip it doesnt look that way to me only that he is expressing his view, which is valid, and should be thought about. I cant see where he is obtaining power, do explain.

Also did you find out the meaning of the word sadist the day you wrote that or is it just enjoy using the word twice in a small paragraph ?

: lemming Jul 13 2004, 02:39 PM

I mean that he feels small inside and searching for power somewhere and politics happens to be where he expresses his anger. I don't mean to belittle but to be honest with yourself you have to be honest with other people. A coming out like when gay people feel a great burden has be lifted of their shoulders, or whatever you feel ashamed of because society says its a bad thing. Most people think of sadism as just a person inflicting pain on another person, but it also goes into politics when they try to punish people for who they are, drug users, alcoholics, gun owners, gays, fat people, skinny people, happy people, sad people, etc. because it happens to be that they are really unhappy with themselves and not other people, because you make up the society individually. I'm a capitalist but I charge people for my help on now much I care about them or how much money they have, alot of times I do it for free, people that have money(got to make a living someway), I take what I can get. Because I'm not a super emotional being but that I also have a engineering side to my brain too. I'm fascinated with simplicity. All mary kate or ashely needs is someone to relate to and tell her that they love her sincerely and truely mean it. That not to many people can do in this superficial society. Thats why serial killers kill for love and blame society but its really because they blame themselves.

I know he is a good guy but he has unresolved problems. Grew before his time and all that normal jazz. I mean hormones and society are powerful things.. I'm feeling a emptiness now so out. As long as there is one other person out there, you are not alone.

: rev79 Jul 13 2004, 09:23 PM

^Y'all right man?

Your shotput analysis of a person you've never met is severely off topic. Stick to the subject that matters, which is weak, attention-seeking teen girls with eating problems.


: Holter Jul 13 2004, 10:22 PM

QUOTE(rev79 @ Jul 13 2004, 10:23 PM)
^Y'all right man?

Your shotput analysis of a person you've never met is severely off topic. Stick to the subject that matters, which is weak, attention-seeking teen girls with eating problems.
[right][snapback]120104[/snapback][/right]



do you do standup man? hahaha - no offense to people

: Fanatical Radical Jul 13 2004, 11:26 PM

QUOTE(rev79 @ Jul 12 2004, 10:45 PM)
QUOTE(rev79 @ Jul 11 2004, 10:26 PM)
^Looks like its a matter of opinion. I certainly don't live according to some textbooks. IMO, if you're wasting good food, you should be punished. If you're eating too much good food, you should be punished. You're not going to throw out any statistic or sob story that will affect my thinking.

To the youth of America who decided to create this 'disease' for attention: ROLL WITH IT.
[right][snapback]119584[/snapback][/right]


There's nothing else for me to say here. If you have an eating disorder, don't expect sympathy from too many people, except possibly your family. Its not an epidemic. Its not even a disease. If you'll notice, the majority of the people with this condition are teens and young adults. That should tell you something- and that something is they are reaching out, give them attention- HELP THEM with the so-called 'struggles' in their life. They know what they're doing is improper. If they weren't doing that, they'd be snorting coke.
[right][snapback]119799[/snapback][/right]


thats cold...

They are starving themselves to death, if you don't consider it a disease then you should atleast see it as a mental illness.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 14 2004, 04:35 AM

Hmmmmmmm, circles.all this goin round and round is making me ill icon8.gif

: lemming Jul 14 2004, 06:52 AM

Its on topic because it has to do with understanding what they are going though and thats what this is really about, understanding.

I feel rejected.

: Test subject #41 Jul 14 2004, 09:38 AM

QUOTE
thats what this is really about, understanding.


zyes.gif
Truly isn't that what most of the worlds problems are about?

Rev and Holter I'm not sure if you missed my questions or just didn't want to answer them. I'm interested to know what you think,

Why do you believe this? What does punishment achieve?
What if you waste money on cigarettes should you be punished then?
What if you waste it on heroin to feed your addiction?
We are all human here shit happens,
Have none of you guys done anything to fit in or to be liked that you might regret?

If it was just because you didn't want to answer them then all right I'll stop asking them.

: rev79 Jul 14 2004, 09:50 AM

^No offense guy, but I really have no interest in continuing this debate any further. Just covering my own ass so it doesn't look like I've copped out.

Comparing a tobacco or heroin addiction to an eating disorder isn't valid. One does not shoot up to glamorize themselves.

Me? Maybe I damn well should be punished for smoking- it might help me quit. But at least I'm not wasting good food; nor am I doing it as a cry for help.

As far as fitting in..no, I don't recall doing anything ridiculous that I regretted later. Like me or lump me- Dogg doesn't change his Style for anybody.

: Test subject #41 Jul 14 2004, 01:59 PM

QUOTE
As far as fitting in..no, I don't recall doing anything ridiculous that I regretted later. Like me or lump me- Dogg doesn't change his Style for anybody.


So why did you start smoking?

: Nino Jul 14 2004, 02:12 PM

QUOTE
Why do you believe this? What does punishment achieve?
What if you waste money on cigarettes should you be punished then?
What if you waste it on heroin to feed your addiction?
We are all human here shit happens,
Have none of you guys done anything to fit in or to be liked that you might regret?


1) Punishment brings a varity of emotions and outcomes some good and some not.
2) No you shouldnt because there not good anyway and its not like someone else is being deprived of something they need to survive.
3) Then thats totally different ,heroin and a eating disorder are two toally different things and personally i can see a eating disorder being a lot easier to give up them heroin.
4) I proberbly have tried to fit in but nothing that i remember thats because i dont really fit in without trying to sound like some social outcast. I have friends and stuff mainly banksy but i spend a lot of time on the internet so im not that active in impressing people, if you get my drift. Also if i have done something to fit in i dont regret it because i cant think of anything i regret, regretting things is preety stupid anyway because nothing can be done to eradicate the mistakes you have made.

: Sara Jul 15 2004, 03:42 AM

QUOTE(rev79 @ Jul 15 2004, 05:50 AM)
Comparing a tobacco or heroin addiction to an eating disorder isn't valid. One does not shoot up to glamorize themselves.
[right][snapback]120257[/snapback][/right]


laugh.gif yes, you know all about it. it's all about glamour, not.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 15 2004, 06:41 AM

QUOTE
Like me or lump me- Dogg doesn't change his Style for anybody.


Sounds like the words of someone who is ignorant.

Heroin addiction is more similar to an eating disorder than you think.. As we've already said, eating disorders don't just develop in an attempt to glamourise oneself. We've gone through the reasons: media manipulation, very strict families etc.
Also, an eating disorder is hard to kick. When anorexics are institutionilised they often see other anorexics die, but they continue to smuggle out food and put weights in their shoes to make them appera heavier at weigh-ins. I've never been a heroin user, but I have been told how hard a habit it is to kick. Both eating disorders and heroin use can come about as a means to gain control over ones life.

Why can't some of you just accept that anorxia is a real problem that is comparable to all diseases, other than because you are just ignorant?

: Fanatical Radical Jul 15 2004, 10:39 AM

QUOTE
QUOTE
What if you waste money on cigarettes should you be punished then?

No you shouldnt because there not good anyway and its not like someone else is being deprived of something they need to survive.


BS...

Tobacco is responsible for large ammounts of deforestation and increases in greenhouse gasses. after being harvested tobacco is cured, and to accomplish this process wood is burned. It is estimated that 1 in 8 trees cut in the world is cut for tobacco use.

Tobacco growth uses 0.3% of the worlds arable land; land which could be used to grow needed food instead. not only does tobacco occupy the land, but it quickly drains it leaving it very infertile. This leads to the use of fertalizers (increasing greenhouse gasses and poisoning water supplies) or more deforestation (again increasing greenhouse gasses) in search of fertile land. So tobacco not only ties up 0.3% of the currently arable land, but has also depleted lands to the point of which they are non-arable. Who knows how much of the worlds arable lands have been driven unusable by previous tobacco growth.

Environmental effects (something very rarely known about tobacco) deprive many people in third world countries the ability to access their land for agriculture and the use of natural semi-renewable resources such as lumber. And don't get me started on second hand smoke, healthcare costs, etc...

some sites giving info on the enviromnetal effects of tobacco growth and curing:
http://www.nsma.org.au/world3.htm
http://www.who.int/tobacco/areas/communications/events/wntd/2004/tobaccofacts_nations/en/ http://scienceu.fsu.edu/content/tobaccoyou/enviroment/docs/deforestation.html

: lemming Jul 15 2004, 10:59 AM

John Lennon said it best, You can't hide when your crippled inside.

: Nino Jul 15 2004, 02:47 PM

But surely doesnt coffee also damage the enviroment when it is made, proerbly not because its not as bad as tabbaco supposedly.

QUOTE
And don't get me started on second hand smoke, healthcare costs, etc.


What about second hand smoke, if someone doesnt want me smoking around them then fine i dont and im fine with that but personally id be more bothered about other things then wether my cigarrette is going to strike you dead because simply its not. Also healthcare, let me ask you a question- do you drink ? id presume the answer is yes because a lot of people do if you dont then fine but many do. Id think if you calculated the cost of the number of drink related illness or admissions to hospital it would proberbly outweight the smokers but again im proberbly wrong because everyone seems to have all the answers.

QUOTE
land which could be used to grow needed food instead.


But no we dont we need richer nations to stop eating as much as they do and stop the obesty problem that so many countries have we also need to stop wasting so much food that has gone out of date or people feeding there dogs steaks instead of dog food, you get me. We dont need more land to fgrow food we need to stop mass comsunption of it in so many countries.

At the start of this topic i disagreed with rev but now i have changed my view and i agree with him he has brought up some very important topics. I dont think you can justify throwing up food and damaging your insides just because you dont feel right or need to fit in, god dam i dont fit in and i never will because i sit in my house too much but i dont throw food up and this is what it all comes to attention and the patheticness of what these people do it baffels me that with so many people dying from starvation they have the ignorance to throw up food, why not just go without food it would be easier.

QUOTE
Heroin addiction is more similar to an eating disorder than you think.. As we've already said, eating disorders don't just develop in an attempt to glamourise oneself. We've gone through the reasons: media manipulation, very strict families etc.


I dont think so. A heroin addict is dependent on a drug which allows the person to fulfill a craving and a person with a eating disorder isnt actually addicted to anything and there body doesnt need to throw up food. Also what do you mean by media malipunation and very strict families i cant understand how either of these would make someone want to throw up food and if so why cant they see past there looks and see there beautiful inside.


QUOTE
Why can't some of you just accept that anorxia is a real problem that is comparable to all diseases, other than because you are just ignorant?


You dont know me so dont even try to figure one thing out about me because the internet and real life are two very different things. Also of course it is a issus but its not something that effects me as much as other issues and if someone wants to throw up food then they can but dont look at me for sympathy because i dont understand why you would do something like this rather then the person being shallow and not able to see the beauty that lies beneath the skin. I could call you ignorant because unlike me who does actually understand what your saying you dont seem to understand or recognize my posts rather you just dismiss them as rubbish because you must be right and your view is correct, ah well maybe you should be more open to other peoples ideas.

: Fanatical Radical Jul 16 2004, 12:14 AM

QUOTE
But surely doesnt coffee also damage the enviroment when it is made, proerbly not because its not as bad as tabbaco supposedly.


Well it might damage the environment, but its not addictive (or atleast on the scale of cigarettes) and it does provide some basic amount of nutrience. Also you've missed the point: smoking does deprive people of something, arable land and the semi-renewable resource of trees.

QUOTE
QUOTE
And don't get me started on second hand smoke, healthcare costs, etc.


What about second hand smoke, if someone doesnt want me smoking around them then fine i dont and im fine with that but personally id be more bothered about other things then wether my cigarrette is going to strike you dead because simply its not. Also healthcare, let me ask you a question- do you drink ? id presume the answer is yes because a lot of people do if you dont then fine but many do. Id think if you calculated the cost of the number of drink related illness or admissions to hospital it would proberbly outweight the smokers but again im proberbly wrong because everyone seems to have all the answers.


I doubt drinking related illness would cause higher costs to the healthcare (though I don't have factual proof, though this is not important to the arguement at hand). Poor diet probably is a higher cost then both drinking and alcohol, but that offtopic. Infact I only mentioned healthcare and secondhand as another negative side to smoking, not for how smoking deprives people of resources. just ignore the fact that I mentioned them, it was offtopic and not important to the debate....

QUOTE
QUOTE
land which could be used to grow needed food instead.


But no we dont we need richer nations to stop eating as much as they do and stop the obesty problem that so many countries have we also need to stop wasting so much food that has gone out of date or people feeding there dogs steaks instead of dog food, you get me. We dont need more land to fgrow food we need to stop mass comsunption of it in so many countries.


why not do both?
that way we could do things like grow coffee, natural tobacco (don't even try to compare it with the tobacco you get in cigarettes!!!) and fruits and grains for alcohol.

then we could make leasure goods and use them occasionally (responsibly)

QUOTE
At the start of this topic i disagreed with rev but now i have changed my view and i agree with him he has brought up some very important topics. I dont think you can justify throwing up food and damaging your insides just because you dont feel right or need to fit in, god dam i dont fit in and i never will because i sit in my house too much but i dont throw food up and this is what it all comes to attention and the patheticness of what these people do it baffels me that with so many people dying from starvation they have the ignorance to throw up food, why not just go without food it would be easier.


Ok, your right... These annorexics are just starving themselves for attention. Its nothing like a disease or a mental ailment, but just vanity that drives them to poor bodily health, menstral difficulties and infertility. Lets not assume for a moment that this could be anything more then about fitting in or being excepted, after all its not like anyone has died.rolleyes.gif

Are people who suffer from anxiety just low confidence individuals who don't like social situations? is a psychopaths just seeking attention?

come on guys. I'm not saying ALL anorexics are mentally ill, maybe not even Mary Kate (if she does have it?). But you can't honestly tell me that you believe the anorexics/bulimics who die in the clinics are just the vain teenagers looking for sympathy... can you? sad.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE
Heroin addiction is more similar to an eating disorder than you think.. As we've already said, eating disorders don't just develop in an attempt to glamourise oneself. We've gone through the reasons: media manipulation, very strict families etc.


I dont think so. A heroin addict is dependent on a drug which allows the person to fulfill a craving and a person with a eating disorder isnt actually addicted to anything and there body doesnt need to throw up food. Also what do you mean by media malipunation and very strict families i cant understand how either of these would make someone want to throw up food and if so why cant they see past there looks and see there beautiful inside.


Your right about the herion addiction, anorexia is not about fufilment. But the comparison they were trying to make wasn't how it affected you, but how you can't control yourself. With Heroin you have an uncontrollable urge to use a drug; with an eating disorder you have an uncontrollable urge to not intake needed nutriance.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Why can't some of you just accept that anorxia is a real problem that is comparable to all diseases, other than because you are just ignorant?


You dont know me so dont even try to figure one thing out about me because the internet and real life are two very different things. Also of course it is a issus but its not something that effects me as much as other issues and if someone wants to throw up food then they can but dont look at me for sympathy because i dont understand why you would do something like this rather then the person being shallow and not able to see the beauty that lies beneath the skin. I could call you ignorant because unlike me who does actually understand what your saying you dont seem to understand or recognize my posts rather you just dismiss them as rubbish because you must be right and your view is correct, ah well maybe you should be more open to other peoples ideas.


So now we turn our backs on people rejected from societies image and feel they need to do these things for sympathy!? Even if its not an illness (which i believe in some cases it is) then your still turing your backs on those in need. I'm sorry thats worse then wasting food, thats an inhuman stance to take.

: Nino Jul 16 2004, 03:44 AM

QUOTE
Well it might damage the environment, but its not addictive (or atleast on the scale of cigarettes) and it does provide some basic amount of nutrience. Also you've missed the point: smoking does deprive people of something, arable land and the semi-renewable resource of trees.


Yes it does its takes up land and lots of it. Also it is addictive that why people drink so much of the dam stuff and it also bad for the body because its a stimulant which people take too much of and end up in hospital because there bodies have been running off nothing but stimulants.

QUOTE
why not do both?
that way we could do things like grow coffee, natural tobacco (don't even try to compare it with the tobacco you get in cigarettes!!!) and fruits and grains for alcohol.

then we could make leasure goods and use them occasionally (responsibly)


Why do both, we have enough food anyway its just that too much of it is eaten by richer nations there is no need to grow more of it, it just needs to be out equally and stop being wasted. Also why is alcohol and coffe different to tabbaco, maybe because you dont smoke but your drink coffe and alcohol its different for you. Isnt smoking a leisure thing i believe it is because i smoke with people i know and its no different to drinking, you really dont have a good arguement on this.


QUOTE
ome on guys. I'm not saying ALL anorexics are mentally ill, maybe not even Mary Kate (if she does have it?). But you can't honestly tell me that you believe the anorexics/bulimics who die in the clinics are just the vain teenagers looking for sympathy... can you?


No but i can say there very weak minded individuals who have a disease which stems from there wanting to look good or the pressure that is put on them too look good. I wouldnt call it a disease as such because its all in the brain and if they had any respect for themselves they wouldnt do it.


QUOTE
So now we turn our backs on people rejected from societies image and feel they need to do these things for sympathy!? Even if its not an illness (which i believe in some cases it is) then your still turing your backs on those in need. I'm sorry thats worse then wasting food, thats an inhuman stance to take.


Oh i am sorry if i have turned my back on people who waste perfectly good food for a reason that i dont quite know. I dont turn my back on people if someone has something wrong with them i there for them and if a friend had anorexia i would proberbly try to help them but i wouldnt feel the sympathy i would for someone dying from cancer, its self inflicted and can be stopped where as cancer can't in many cases. Its the same for someone addicted to drug i would be there for them but i wouldnt feel that much symoathy because they got thereselves into the situation and they have the power to stop it. There could be thousand of reasons for people being anorexic but i can't think of a situation where it would lead someone into throwing up food, i have problems and my life isnt great but i dont inject drugs into my arms or throw up food and i suppose you dont either, its all about how strong people are and some people need to understand life isnt all roses and preety things but that shit does happen and it happens to everyone, i think some of these people dont quite know what they have got and need to think about what they have in life to fully understand the meaning of there lives.

: ley-adam.99 Jul 16 2004, 05:41 AM

QUOTE
You dont know me so dont even try to figure one thing out about me because the internet and real life are two very different things. Also of course it is a issus but its not something that effects me as much as other issues and if someone wants to throw up food then they can but dont look at me for sympathy because i dont understand why you would do something like this rather then the person being shallow and not able to see the beauty that lies beneath the skin. I could call you ignorant because unlike me who does actually understand what your saying you dont seem to understand or recognize my posts rather you just dismiss them as rubbish because you must be right and your view is correct, ah well maybe you should be more open to other peoples ideas.


I'm sorry if I came across like that, I don't dismiss you're view as rubbish and just assume mine is correct. It just annoys me when people underestimate the sriousness and reality of this disease, beacuse Iv'e studied it a bit and I can see what these people are doing to themselves.

The media and srict family are seen as causes of annorexia, but there are many others.

The media cause basically shows how much the media influences our behaviour, in particular glamour magazines and super models etc.

The strict family thing is a cause put forward by psychoanalysts, who believe that annorexia is a means of developing control over your life, control which you don't have because of strict parents etc.

: Fanatical Radical Jul 16 2004, 11:48 PM

QUOTE(amaru @ Jul 16 2004, 11:44 AM)
I wouldnt call it a disease as such because its all in the brain and if they had any respect for themselves they wouldnt do it.


Definition from dictionary.com:
QUOTE
mental illness
n.

Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma. Also called emotional illness, mental disease, mental disorder.


So I think we can call it mental illness, and it likely stems from social factors.

Have you ever been hypnotized? many people cannot bend their limbs, or do amazingly strange of things while hypnotized (I have seen my friends river dance on stage, infront of a school), they can even recall memories lost in the back of their mind. The mind is VERY powerful, I would not be so quick to label these people as being "weak willed".

It is only bulimics who waste food, annorexics actually deprive themselves, so they can't be seen as taking immoral actions.

Just because YOU don't and YOU wouldn't doesn't mean that then its ok to judge people who do. Its also doesn't mean its natural human nature to not feel sympathetic for them. Maybe you saw through the vanity in society, but THEY didn't, and now THEY are at risk of death because society has fucked them up.

We've all been the victim of society at some point: felt its pressures, been outcast from the excepted, etc... We all know how screwed up our society is, and thats why we are all working to change it. We all know what a grotesque monstrousity western culture is, and we should help those who have fallen in its face.

I'm trying to get at is these people are victims too. You shoudn't judge them, especailly without knowing what life they've lived or how hard it is living with an eating disorder. Show some compassion, its ok to feel sympathy towards these people; it doesn't cost anything, and its only human to do so.

: Dreamcatcher Jul 17 2004, 02:52 AM

Long thread.
My take on it all,
There are many misconceptions that come with eating disorders. Those are but not limited to,
All people who have an eating disorder are thin,
People who are anorexic don't eat,
Anorexia is caused by wanting to be thin.
Just because a person restricts what they eat for a few days or a few weeks means they are anorexic.

Those are just a few of the misconceptions which are all wrong.

Most anorexics aren't underweight and look skeletal. As a matter of fact most bulimics actually gain some weight.
Anorexics do eat but they restrict.
They don't always eat when they are hungry, they eat bits, they become obsessed with counting calories and/or fat grams and so on.
Anorexia IS a control disorder.
Only a professional can diagnose a person with having an eating disorder. A person can not diagnose themself or anybody else as having one.

In most cases an anorexic is an over achiever. If you notice many prima ballerinas, cheerleaders, gymnasts, swimmers, straight A students and so on develop anorexia due to wanting to be better at their sport and/or academics. But the pressure that comes with it is unbearable for them. A lot of the time it's pressure they put on themselves. It's the silent pressure that only they hear. The strive to perfection slowly turn toward food which is one thing that can be controlled since it is you that puts the food there. It's something else for them to focus on.
Mary Kate's press release only said she was in rehab for a health related issue. It was actually some media outlets that said is was due to an eating disorder. (sort of like in grade school when they sit you in a circle and let a story go around to see how it ends up) I think since then her sister came out and said she was getting help for an eating disorder. Too many people are so quick to judge though. Not all very thin people are anorexic. The rumor is is that she has a drug addiction which she very well could have and they're using an eating disorder to cover it up. You go into treatment for an eating disorder not rehab. Whatever is going on with her I do wish her the best.
A lot of people in Hollywood feel the pressure to be thin not only because of the obvious demands that come along with being in the business but because anytime somebody gains a few noticeable pounds it's on all the tabloids.
Though many famous people who all of a sudden drop a few noticeable pounds get accused of having an eating disorder. Take Sarah Michelle Gellar for instance. Look at the very first season of Buffy compare it to the last or second to last. She dropped a lot of weight and was accused of having an eating disorder. Though nobody seemed to notice that she went from working here and there to having her own hour long show packed with stunts which most she performed herself. She was bound to lose some pounds with getting that much extra exercise and working so much. But of course nobody looked at that instead they accused her of having a sometimes fatal disorder.
Way to many people are uneducated on this topic. Not necessarily in this thread. It's so long I didn't get to read much of it.
Just my two cents.

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 17 2004, 05:08 AM

Ah Rev you're always there to show your vanguard opinions against people with eating disorders.


I hope there isn't a thread about people who stutter. I suppose they COULD write everything down...

: rev79 Jul 17 2004, 09:35 AM

QUOTE(Lpldbloom @ Jul 17 2004, 08:08 AM)
Ah Rev you're always there to show your vanguard opinions against people with eating disorders.
[right][snapback]121057[/snapback][/right]


Good word: vanguard. Glad to hear you might be coming to grips with it.
Did Mary-Kate get her sandwich yet? Or is she still nibbling on a sesame seed?

: ImperialAerosolKid Jul 17 2004, 10:17 AM

ooh the O'Rev Factor....

: Intrepid_one Jul 17 2004, 05:35 PM

Bawha hah ha ha! w00t.gif

: Holter Jul 18 2004, 05:07 PM

QUOTE(Test subject #41 @ Jul 14 2004, 10:38 AM)
QUOTE
thats what this is really about, understanding.


zyes.gif
Truly isn't that what most of the worlds problems are about?

Rev and Holter I'm not sure if you missed my questions or just didn't want to answer them. I'm interested to know what you think,

Why do you believe this? What does punishment achieve?
What if you waste money on cigarettes should you be punished then?
What if you waste it on heroin to feed your addiction?
We are all human here shit happens,
Have none of you guys done anything to fit in or to be liked that you might regret?

If it was just because you didn't want to answer them then all right I'll stop asking them.
[right][snapback]120256[/snapback][/right]



Its just because i am staying out of this topic now, and i havent read it for a few days or maybe a week. Jingle got all pissed off at me and cussed me out, and then he left right afterwards so i just figured i would shut the hell up and keep it to myself. Its not because I am ignoring you, but arguing about this kind of stuff is like pulling teeth. Ive actually grown tired with reading or debating about anything political on the internet.

I will try to answer your questions though since you asked me personally.

1. I dont believe this is a disease, but just a byproduct of self reflection. Its a persons own problem, but not a disease. I would ask you why its only women who are the ones affected by this. Maybe not only, but the overwhelming majority.
Im not sure what you are asking about the punishment thing.

2. If your dumb enough to smoke, then yes. Whats funny to me is that women (yeah im going to focus on women because like i said it is women who have this problem more than men do) who are anorexic, usually are this way because they think they will look better if they are skinny (at least the women that i have known that have had an eating disorder) and smoking will make you look like shit in the long run. Youll never see an older person who smokes who has good skin. And if this is all about Vanity (which i think it is) than why would someone smoke?

Also youll have to understand that there are few things in this world that I think are worse than cigarettes, and its because ive seen what smoking can do to a person when they are older, so dont anyone try to tell me that i dont know shit about smoking just because i dont and have never smoked or chewed or whatever.

3. The questions about heroin and whatever i dont understand, so maybe you can rephrase them. otherwise they will remain unanswered.

last one. Have I ever done anything that I am embarrassed about doing to fit in? I dont think so, ive never smoked, never had an eating disorder, had the same friends for basically the last half of my life, i drink but its a hobby, not an addiction (some people may not understand that but i think rev does)

: letsgetreal Jul 18 2004, 07:06 PM

As you suspected, not just women suffer from eating disorders. And as you have no clue, its not a way of fittin in, such as smoking. Ive seen comparisons like this on this board, and nope, its not that simple. Its not about women thinkin that being skinny is being more beautiful, that would be a look to the surface. The system has created the fashion of extreme thinness, and yes, its true, this has provoked a lot of pressure in women, more than men im sure. Still, you get men addicted to the gym until it becomes a problem for example (and keep a track on this, because you will see this growin through the years). Its not women thinkin that being skinny rules, its women being a victim of the whooole system that manifests itself through many ways, and make them loose it. The brightest, most intelligent woman on this planet could fall in an eating disorder in the first world, being raped by all those fashion messeges every day, everywhere: school, work, home, shops, gym, street, pubs, etc. A woman needs to be sexy in the western society, its a new way of opressing them that chases them around.They are always overlooked by other women and men, every day And it happens to happen that the idea of sexy right now is being wicked thin (which is totally oposite of the idea of being sexy just 100 years ago). You hold the person guilty of their disease, as if they themselves got into it, and you refuse to hold guilty the whole crappy system of ideals that capitalism has created that had speed up the process of eating disorders to grow. And i say speed up, because an eating disorder doesnt revolve about the fashion thing totally. There is way more causes to it, (including, im sure you will be shocked, heritage for example).

And yes, it is a disease even if you dont want to agree with it. Haha, you see, this is a fact, is not like you can actually discuss it. You can call it whatever you want, it wont matter, because it is a disease.

: ragetta Jul 18 2004, 08:17 PM

I agree, there are many people starving and these girls are not eating or eating and purging when they have food. It's sick.

Ever see True Life-I Have an Eating Disorder on MTV, it grossed me out!!

: ragetta Jul 18 2004, 08:24 PM

QUOTE(rev79 @ Jul 5 2004, 09:24 PM)
QUOTE(Intrepid_one @ Jul 5 2004, 11:27 PM)
I may get slammed for this but people with eating disorders make me sick. It’s a selfish fucking disease rooted from shameless vanity, self loathing and megalomania. Look at all those people who are starving because they don't HAVE any food, are oppressed and living in filth without the basic necessities of life, with problems we can't even begin to conceive. There vertebra’s stick out of there backs because there is no food or water. Not because they want to look as pretty as Christina Agulara in her backless Prada number.

Right on!
Think about all the good healthy food that ends up in the garbage can because these prissies refuse to even touch it, while in other parts of the world you got people digging in dumpsters for a peach pit, for christ sake! They fear their weight might vault from 75 to 80 lbs., all the while fussing in the mirror that they're FAT.
[right][snapback]118216[/snapback][/right]

I agree people starve, while these girls have food and not eating. Hunger shouldn't be wanted, it should be hated. Food is a gift

: Dreamcatcher Jul 18 2004, 10:06 PM

QUOTE(Holter @ Jul 18 2004, 08:07 PM)
QUOTE(Test subject #41 @ Jul 14 2004, 10:38 AM)
QUOTE
thats what this is really about, understanding.


zyes.gif
Truly isn't that what most of the worlds problems are about?

Rev and Holter I'm not sure if you missed my questions or just didn't want to answer them. I'm interested to know what you think,

Why do you believe this? What does punishment achieve?
What if you waste money on cigarettes should you be punished then?
What if you waste it on heroin to feed your addiction?
We are all human here shit happens,
Have none of you guys done anything to fit in or to be liked that you might regret?

If it was just because you didn't want to answer them then all right I'll stop asking them.
[right][snapback]120256[/snapback][/right]



Its just because i am staying out of this topic now, and i havent read it for a few days or maybe a week. Jingle got all pissed off at me and cussed me out, and then he left right afterwards so i just figured i would shut the hell up and keep it to myself. Its not because I am ignoring you, but arguing about this kind of stuff is like pulling teeth. Ive actually grown tired with reading or debating about anything political on the internet.

I will try to answer your questions though since you asked me personally.

1. I dont believe this is a disease, but just a byproduct of self reflection. Its a persons own problem, but not a disease. I would ask you why its only women who are the ones affected by this. Maybe not only, but the overwhelming majority.
Im not sure what you are asking about the punishment thing.

2. If your dumb enough to smoke, then yes. Whats funny to me is that women (yeah im going to focus on women because like i said it is women who have this problem more than men do) who are anorexic, usually are this way because they think they will look better if they are skinny (at least the women that i have known that have had an eating disorder) and smoking will make you look like shit in the long run. Youll never see an older person who smokes who has good skin. And if this is all about Vanity (which i think it is) than why would someone smoke?

Also youll have to understand that there are few things in this world that I think are worse than cigarettes, and its because ive seen what smoking can do to a person when they are older, so dont anyone try to tell me that i dont know shit about smoking just because i dont and have never smoked or chewed or whatever.

3. The questions about heroin and whatever i dont understand, so maybe you can rephrase them. otherwise they will remain unanswered.

last one. Have I ever done anything that I am embarrassed about doing to fit in? I dont think so, ive never smoked, never had an eating disorder, had the same friends for basically the last half of my life, i drink but its a hobby, not an addiction (some people may not understand that but i think rev does)
[right][snapback]121368[/snapback][/right]


You're right it's not a disease but it is a disorder, a form of mental illness. The only reason why it hits women more is because a lot of women tend to put more pressure on themselves to be the best then a lot of men do. Many Men suffer from eating disorders. Look at wrestling, I'm talking real Olympic wrestling not the WWE crap. Many wrestlers do outrageous things to lose/maintain their weight so they can wrestle in a particular weight class. They end up with eating disorders due to the pressure to stay in a particular weight class to wrestle along with the other pressures that go with sports. Billy Bob Thornton has been open in the past about having anorexia. So it's not just women.
Were the people you know who had eating disorders diagnosed or were they just going around saying they had one? I'm sure if you talked to their therapists they would beg to differ with your comment about eating disorders being about vanity. You couldn't be further from the truth. You NEVER hear a person with an eating disorder saying "I look so fat today" or "I'm too fat I can't eat" It's very known that people who suffer from eating disorders do a lot of lying to cover up the fact they have one. They would NEVER parade it out. People don't form eating disorders to fit in. Most people who suffer from an eating disorder will distance themselves from others. It's one of the signs of an eating disorder.
I know life isn't so black and white but when we're talking about the majority of people with a particular illness it is.

One another quick note. Part of an eating disorder is the guilt that comes with it. People with eating disorders feel very guilty about wasting food. Which is part of the depression that stems from the eating disorder.
Instead of arguing about this with ignorant views I think you'd all be better off opening up your minds and listening/read and understand the facts about these disorders.

Everything else is covered in my last reply to this topic which I will repost here considering some people still don't understand this disorder.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long thread.
My take on it all,
There are many misconceptions that come with eating disorders. Those are but not limited to,
All people who have an eating disorder are thin,
People who are anorexic don't eat,
Anorexia is caused by wanting to be thin.
Just because a person restricts what they eat for a few days or a few weeks means they are anorexic.

Those are just a few of the misconceptions which are all wrong.

Most anorexics aren't underweight and look skeletal. As a matter of fact most bulimics actually gain some weight.
Anorexics do eat but they restrict.
They don't always eat when they are hungry, they eat bits, they become obsessed with counting calories and/or fat grams and so on.
Anorexia IS a control disorder.
Only a professional can diagnose a person with having an eating disorder. A person can not diagnose themself or anybody else as having one.

In most cases an anorexic is an over achiever. If you notice many prima ballerinas, cheerleaders, gymnasts, swimmers, straight A students and so on develop anorexia due to wanting to be better at their sport and/or academics. But the pressure that comes with it is unbearable for them. A lot of the time it's pressure they put on themselves. It's the silent pressure that only they hear. The strive to perfection slowly turn toward food which is one thing that can be controlled since it is you that puts the food there. It's something else for them to focus on.
Mary Kate's press release only said she was in rehab for a health related issue. It was actually some media outlets that said is was due to an eating disorder. (sort of like in grade school when they sit you in a circle and let a story go around to see how it ends up) I think since then her sister came out and said she was getting help for an eating disorder. Too many people are so quick to judge though. Not all very thin people are anorexic. The rumor is is that she has a drug addiction which she very well could have and they're using an eating disorder to cover it up. You go into treatment for an eating disorder not rehab. Whatever is going on with her I do wish her the best.
A lot of people in Hollywood feel the pressure to be thin not only because of the obvious demands that come along with being in the business but because anytime somebody gains a few noticeable pounds it's on all the tabloids.
Though many famous people who all of a sudden drop a few noticeable pounds get accused of having an eating disorder. Take Sarah Michelle Gellar for instance. Look at the very first season of Buffy compare it to the last or second to last. She dropped a lot of weight and was accused of having an eating disorder. Though nobody seemed to notice that she went from working here and there to having her own hour long show packed with stunts which most she performed herself. She was bound to lose some pounds with getting that much extra exercise and working so much. But of course nobody looked at that instead they accused her of having a sometimes fatal disorder.
Way to many people are uneducated on this topic. Not necessarily in this thread. It's so long I didn't get to read much of it.
Just my two cents.

: Nino Jul 19 2004, 04:09 AM

QUOTE
I'm sorry if I came across like that, I don't dismiss you're view as rubbish and just assume mine is correct. It just annoys me when people underestimate the sriousness and reality of this disease, beacuse Iv'e studied it a bit and I can see what these people are doing to themselves.

The media and srict family are seen as causes of annorexia, but there are many others.

The media cause basically shows how much the media influences our behaviour, in particular glamour magazines and super models etc.

The strict family thing is a cause put forward by psychoanalysts, who believe that annorexia is a means of developing control over your life, control which you don't have because of strict parents etc.


I understand that its a illness and i understand that people die from it but as i have said i dont understand it and i dont feel sorry for people who are anorexic. Obviously in this post you have shown you understand my points which im glad about and i hope you relise i understand yours. I think people look on this in different ways and mine personally is that these people are or where to anxious about what society thought of them. I cant think why someone would turn anorexic because of there family or pressue over them but perhaps it could be the same as turning to drugs or alcohol i suppose thats a valid comparison.


QUOTE
So I think we can call it mental illness


Id rather not if its all the same.

QUOTE
Have you ever been hypnotized? many people cannot bend their limbs, or do amazingly strange of things while hypnotized (I have seen my friends river dance on stage, infront of a school), they can even recall memories lost in the back of their mind. The mind is VERY powerful, I would not be so quick to label these people as being "weak willed".


no i havent but hypnotism doesnt work on everyone. Also why not hypnotize "mentally ill" patients and make them better. I would label them as weak willed, some people who are addicted to heroin are able to go cold turkey and give up the drug even thought the factors that play on the mind during this time are terrible, why cant a anorxic person relise there is no point in throwing up food or starving themselves of food.


QUOTE
We've all been the victim of society at some point: felt its pressures, been outcast from the excepted, etc... We all know how screwed up our society is, and thats why we are all working to change it. We all know what a grotesque monstrousity western culture is, and we should help those who have fallen in its face.


Is society so messed up, personally i couldnt care less. Im not sure if the society i live in is messed up it seems preety much fine to me with a handful of assholes who do shit things but apart from that the other simpletons who live in my town seem to get along fine in there jolly existance which i sfine with me.

QUOTE
I'm trying to get at is these people are victims too. You shoudn't judge them, especailly without knowing what life they've lived or how hard it is living with an eating disorder. Show some compassion, its ok to feel sympathy towards these people; it doesn't cost anything, and its only human to do so.


I dont judge them and i wouldnt but i dont feel sympathy for them. I can think of times as i have said when people could get a eating disorder but it doesnt mean they have too or other people who have been through the same shit have done. I dont feel for them because in a way they could of stopped this happeneing with maybe some help or maybe a little more strength, i didnt mean that to sound ignorant but the point im trying to say is that i cant relate anorxia to something like cancer because its just not the same

I think this post is going to be a bit confusing seeming the quotes are taken from a page back and there is probebrly a lot more for me to comment on but i dont have the time and dont come on here as much so do understand fi this post is irrelevent.

: letsgetreal Jul 19 2004, 02:33 PM

QUOTE
Ever see True Life-I Have an Eating Disorder on MTV, it grossed me out!!


Ewwwww!!! OMG!!!!!!! rolleyes.gif

Keep having MTV as your documentary source, your posts will remain as ignorant.

QUOTE
I agree people starve, while these girls have food and not eating. Hunger shouldn't be wanted, it should be hated. Food is a gift


Thats completelly out of the point.


QUOTE
I cant think why someone would turn anorexic because of there family or pressue over them


... because you obviously dont know anything about them.... as shows your followin quote....

QUOTE
I would label them as weak willed, some people who are addicted to heroin are able to go cold turkey and give up the drug even thought the factors that play on the mind during this time are terrible, why cant a anorxic person relise there is no point in throwing up food or starving themselves of food.


Weak willed. Not only you say that but then you say heroin addicted people ar strong cause they have to go through a lot of shit to quit. Well, that shit they go through, is even easier than what a person with an eating disorder has to go through. What you guys dont get is that an eating disorder is way more than an addiction, and it has nothing to do with being weak willed. I really dont know why you keep posting if you have no idea and end up saying things like that. Its offensive.


QUOTE
Is society so messed up, personally i couldnt care less. Im not sure if the society i live in is messed up it seems preety much fine to me with a handful of assholes who do shit things but apart from that the other simpletons who live in my town seem to get along fine in there jolly existance which i sfine with me.


"Seems pretty fine to me". Ok, now i understand better why you dont realize about a bunch of things.. when society seems pretty fine to you. People are doing ok, they have culture, education, health care... right? The nation is well informed, the society´s values are valid and supportive, and this creates in us good ideals, there is no poverty, there is no third world in agony so that we can drive around in our SUV.... yeah, society seems "fine" to me too.

QUOTE
understand that its a illness and i understand that people die from it but as i have said i dont understand it and i dont feel sorry for people who are anorexic


Then if you wnat to learn more about it (like its good to learn about things you dont really know), then do. If not, why on earth do you keep posting?






: pequot Jul 25 2004, 04:49 PM

QUOTE(Lpldbloom @ Jun 23 2004, 03:31 PM)
http://www.suntimes.com/output/zwecker/cst-ftr-zp23.html
[right][snapback]115437[/snapback][/right]


: pequot Jul 25 2004, 04:49 PM

QUOTE(letsgetreal @ Jul 19 2004, 03:06 AM)
As you suspected, not just women suffer from eating disorders. And as you have no clue, its not a way of fittin in, such as smoking.  Ive seen comparisons like this on this board, and nope, its not that simple. Its not about women thinkin that being skinny is being more beautiful, that would be a look to the surface. The system has created the fashion of extreme thinness, and yes, its true, this has provoked a lot of pressure in women, more than men im sure. Still, you get men addicted to the gym until it becomes a problem for example (and keep a track on this, because you will see this growin through the years). Its not women thinkin that being skinny rules, its women being a victim of the whooole system that manifests itself through many ways, and make them loose it. The brightest, most intelligent woman on this planet could fall in an eating disorder in the first world, being raped by all those fashion messeges every day, everywhere: school, work, home, shops, gym, street, pubs, etc. A woman needs to be sexy in the western society, its a new way of opressing them that chases them around.They are always overlooked by other women and men, every day And it happens to happen that the idea of sexy right now is being wicked thin (which is totally oposite of the idea of being sexy just 100 years ago). You hold the person guilty of their disease, as if they themselves got into it, and you refuse to hold guilty the whole crappy system of ideals that capitalism has created that had speed up the process of eating disorders to grow. And i say speed up, because an eating disorder doesnt revolve about the fashion thing totally. There is way more causes to it, (including, im sure you will be shocked, heritage for example).

And yes, it is a disease even if you dont want to agree with it. Haha, you see, this is a fact, is not like you can actually discuss it. You can call it whatever you want, it wont matter, because it is a disease.
[right][snapback]121406[/snapback][/right]


: pequot Jul 25 2004, 05:15 PM

wink.gif It's been 10 years now i am LIVING FREE OF IT ! clap2.gif
clap3.gif

: Nino Jul 26 2004, 01:48 AM

QUOTE
"Seems pretty fine to me". Ok, now i understand better why you dont realize about a bunch of things.. when society seems pretty fine to you. People are doing ok, they have culture, education, health care... right? The nation is well informed, the society´s values are valid and supportive, and this creates in us good ideals, there is no poverty, there is no third world in agony so that we can drive around in our SUV.... yeah, society seems "fine" to me too.


Firstly im not American and i dont live in America. Im from England and it preety good over here but yes there are a few things wrong but i dont see the point in continually moaning about them because they will never change, and dont say yeh they wont if we dont take up arms or something to that bullshit extent because it aint going to work.

QUOTE
... because you obviously dont know anything about them.... as shows your followin quote....


I didnt say that i did i just pointed out that i cant think of a reason why someone would do that to themselves because of there family or something thats happened to them.



: letsgetreal Jul 26 2004, 03:12 PM

QUOTE
Firstly im not American and i dont live in America. Im from England and it preety good over here


blink.gif

QUOTE
I didnt say that i did i just pointed out that i cant think of a reason why someone would do that to themselves because of there family or something thats happened to them.


Ok, now you know they do. Case closed.

: lemming Aug 6 2004, 09:41 AM

Leave him alone, he's english.

: Orwell Aug 13 2004, 11:49 AM

QUOTE(lemming @ Aug 6 2004, 05:41 PM)
Leave him alone, he's english.
[right][snapback]125811[/snapback][/right]


For some reason, I didn't find that offensive.

: ley-adam.99 Aug 14 2004, 02:47 PM

I haven't been on this thread for a while but I just thought you might find this interesting. Marylin Monroe was actually a size 16 (dress size) which is like way above what an 'ideal' dress size is now (around 10 or 9 I think, I'm not sure I don't wear dresses wink.gif )

Just goes to show how the idea of what is 'beautiful' has progressed over the years to become synonymous with very thin.

: letsgetreal Aug 14 2004, 04:02 PM

QUOTE
I haven't been on this thread for a while but I just thought you might find this interesting. Marylin Monroe was actually a size 16 (dress size) which is like way above what an 'ideal' dress size is now (around 10 or 9 I think, I'm not sure I don't wear dresses  )

Just goes to show how the idea of what is 'beautiful' has progressed over the years to become synonymous with very thin.


Yup, and im thinkin the "ideal" size right now is belov a 10 even... i was readin in this magazine interviews on models and stuff, and they said that if they were as "fat" as marylin they would kill themselves... then the magazine had an article on what a stetic plastic surgeon would think of marylin nowadays.. and pretty much they said she "needed" job in every freakin part of the body... in just a few decades everything changes dramatically... and this new ideal of beauty (absolutelly innatural), has a very important effect on the people, especially, the young women.

QUOTE
I'm not sure I don't wear dresses  )


Now im not sure about that... haha jk



: rev79 Aug 14 2004, 09:34 PM

^Well, IMO Marilyn Monroe puts many of today's supermodels to shame. Shows even more ignorance on the part of these basketcases.

: Orwell Aug 15 2004, 04:25 AM

All hail Marilyn Monroe notworthy.gif

: letsgetreal Aug 15 2004, 06:26 PM

QUOTE(rev79 @ Aug 15 2004, 05:34 AM)
^Well, IMO Marilyn Monroe puts many of today's supermodels to shame. Shows even more ignorance on the part of these basketcases.
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No shit, and in my opinion too, just like in a lot of peoples opinion. This is not so much about opinion, in the sense that there is a subconscieous level on this: manipulating is different from persuading, since manipulating goes under the conscieus part of the individual. The thing is many many of girls that suffer from eating disorder would agree with you in this statement, that Marlilyn was way more beautiful, and they would still harm themselves like they do.

: Dreamcatcher Aug 16 2004, 08:39 AM

QUOTE(ley-adam.99 @ Aug 14 2004, 05:47 PM)
I haven't been on this thread for a while but I just thought you might find this interesting.  Marylin Monroe was actually a size 16 (dress size)  which is like way above what an 'ideal' dress size is now (around 10 or 9 I think, I'm not sure I don't wear dresses wink.gif )

Just goes to show how the idea of what is 'beautiful' has progressed over the years to become synonymous with very thin.
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A size 16 was also much smaller then. For inastance what would have been a size 5 when Marilyn was popular would be a size 0 now.

I don't think there is anything wrong with people thinking thin women are beautiful. Not all thin women starve themselves and I can't stress enough that eating disorders have NOTHING to do with being thin and/or beautiful.

Maybe I'm biased as a naturally very very thin person but I find it so sad that people put down women who are thin and it happens just as often as larger women getting put down. Why can't we look past size all together. Just because somebody thinks a thin person is beautiful doesn't mean they look past those who aren't thin and visa versa.

We all want to see models we can relate to. I have yet to see a model aside from myself who I can relate to. Maybe Twiggy. Do I agree that most models we see be a standard size of 5'10 and 120? No, I don't. In my perfect world models would start at a 000 and go up to a size 27plus, or as big a size as there is. I do think we need to see more diverse models in both size and ethnicity as well as height.

A big problem in Hollywood is everything gets noticed and picked apart. I was in a magazine store a couple of months ago and on one magazine [I can't remember which] there was a whole section dedicated to stars who have cellulite. They had pictures picking these people apart and cracking mean jokes.

Recently Marie Osmond came out talking about the talk show she had with her brother a few years back. Right after she had her baby she got pressure from executives on HER show to get rid of all the weight as soon as possible.

It goes the other way around too. Look at the web site to the treatment center Mary Kate was just in. They only take in people who have drug and alcohol addictions. I find it sick she is claiming to have an eating disorder just to up hold her so called "Clean image" aside from that, the second people thought she looked a bit thin they deemed her as an anorexic.

I'm far from famous and even I hear rude comments about being thin all the time. I've gotten so many "you need a sandwich," "why are you doing that to your body," you need help" comments from complete strangers if I had a dime for every time I hear them I'd be rich. Mean while my gorgeous size 24 friend hears the opposite. "Get off your lazy @$$ more," "Go to the gym," "Wow, look at that heifer." Even though these comments come from people we don't know they still hurt. How they are funny to those who say those derogatory things is beyond me. We both love our sickly thin and pleasantly plump bodacious bods. Because they are our bodies and we are all individuals. Aside from neither of us finding pants that fit we are both completely comfortable with ourselves and love our bodies. It's other people who for some reason are less comfortable with the way our bodies look. I wonder why, considering they are our bodies and NOT theirs. We do also agree that we both would be better off without the rude comments.

I'm not trying to say it's harder to be unerweight then it is to be over weight but it does go both ways.

Sorry I quoted you then went off on a rant, lol. Only a bit of what i said had to do with what I quoted from you. I'm sorry for making such a long post.

Quick facts.
Marilyn stuffed her bra.
Heifer is an organization to stop world hunger.

: RATMROXMYSOX Aug 16 2004, 04:29 PM

I don't consider myself to have an eating disorder persay, but not eating so much really does help me to lose 10 lbs when I want to every month or so. I know it is bad, but people do consciously bad things to themselves all the time. Sometimes even though I may be very hungry, I kinda do other things to get my mind off of it. Now, I eat, but sometimes I avoid it a little bit. And I know aside from all the other huge drawbacks one is that when you do eat something afterward, all the damned weight comes back I swear. I am really trying hard to not eat too much or too little but of course it tends to lean to the lesser of the two. I think today I ate a cereal bar and milk for breakfast, a gross pizza cuz it was the first day of school for lunch, tomorrow I'll eat better, and for dinner I had a bowl of soup. Yeah, I know it doesn't sound like much, but I guess a lot of it is influenced defintely by the presence of my size-0 cousin who is visiting from Holland. And the worst thing was that after I had lost 10 lbs from actually eating healthy and working out? She called me fat. I am a size 11-12 on regular days, ya know, when I'm not bloated from feminine stuff heh but it is still hard even today to not let this standard of beauty that has been beaten into my brain by everyone get to me.

: Intrepid_one Sep 18 2004, 08:30 AM

I will never never never understand this type of reasoning. Eating less has nothing to do with it. Of course your going to gain the weight back. Just like when people do utterly ridiculous things like cutting carbs out, as soon as you introduse it back into your diet you gain the weight back. Its about eating the right food. Cerial bars are generally full of suger, pizza is bad for you, and unless that soup water based it was bad too. If you want to loose weight all you have to do is cut out sugar, cream and butter and of course junk food like pizza. follow that simple rule, eat plenty of whole grain carbs (brown rice, brown bread NO PASTA) and lots of veggies and fruit they are yummy. Its actually rellly easy and you will come to love food.

sweety your a size 11-12? you do not need to loose weight. please be healthy and when your hungry eat something.

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