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> What Is Beautiful?, Beyonces look. A comment n Rolling Stone
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Metzli
Feb 22 2004, 03:06 PM
#46


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this has been a really interesting topic, i agree with all you, Moremi, Sarah and Zapatista.. I just can't articulate my thoughts right now... so yeah.. But I agree.. completely!!


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Moremi
Feb 22 2004, 09:19 PM
#47


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^ I understood where you were coming from. It's a frustrating topic smile.gif


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Sara
Feb 22 2004, 09:28 PM
#48


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hey moremi wavenew.gif

let me say that again, when i mentioned beyonce's hair, being blonde and straight, i didnt so much mean that she wants to be white, in the sense that she hates being black, but what i meant was, there is an ideal out there, and that ideal is white girl with straight blonde hair, sure we get the brunettes and red heads, but let's get real, "blondes have more fun". beyonce goes blonde not because she hates being black, but because she's buying into that idealogy, that blonde is beautiful. we all want to look good, but when we go straighten our hair or go blonde, we do it to look good, because we r told that this is looking good, u know what im trying to say? it's not self-hate, it's just, we buy into things, we believe these notions and ideas bout beauty. it's not that she hates being black or she feels a certain way bout her colour or culture, it's that she's been raised watching racist media, it's so subtle and sneaky and sometimes we fall for things almost unaware of it.

sure we all choose to do what we want with our hair, but how much of a choice does one have, when they want to look good so they go blonde, i mean we r being told certain things, we grow up learning certain things that greatly affect our choices, and so the concept of choice is not longer a neutral abstract thing u know?

but i agree, if we dont make the change, who will?

sorry i ramble too much laugh.gif

ps- hey Zap, so ur not gonna go blonde this season? u really suit it smile2.gif


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zapatista
Feb 22 2004, 09:36 PM
#49


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QUOTE (Sarah @ Feb 23 2004, 12:28 AM)
ps- hey Zap, so ur not gonna go blonde this season? u really suit it smile2.gif

yea... I'm a hot chica with blond hair.. I know I know.. rolleyes.gif

laugh.gif

I look fine with brown hair to tho! tongue.gif

I have something else to add to this discussion tho... I was talking to a friend of mine who only dates white women.. and I asked him about it.. ya know.. like.. why do you ALWAYS date white women.. ya know.. just wondering.. and he was telling me that.. if he has mixed kids they will have an easier life and all this... how do you think more and more mixed children and mixed people come in to play in this growing shift toward a certain look? unsure.gif


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Sara
Feb 22 2004, 09:42 PM
#50


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oh i was just teasing coz u said u wont go blonde again, and well, i highly doubt it laugh.gif


i guess he means his kids will have a better chance in life being half white? i dont personally understand where he's coming from, coz kids of mixed heritege tend to be picked on for being "half-caste" and they tend to be denied from both mother's ethnic group and the father's ethnic group. of course there r exceptions and maybe things will change when he has kids...


aaannnywaay this is off topic scratch.gif


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ozorage
Feb 22 2004, 09:48 PM
#51


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somewhat random but on topic...
this is what popped into my head while going through this thread...

QUOTE
If you're white you're all right
If you're yellow you're mellow
If you're brown stick around
If you're black get back.


don't think there's much more i can add to this other than quoting you guys and simply restating what y'all already said..... so basically, like Rage-Babe...i agree.

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Moremi
Feb 22 2004, 10:01 PM
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Hey Sarah,

Ok, because when you said she was trying to be white, I took that to mean she wasn't proud of who she was. But I agree some people do it for the reasons you've stated. Lil Kim is a perfect example of that. She has even said that she dyes her hair and wears contacts because all her life she's been told that blonde hair and blue eyes is what's beautiful. She also refers to herself as a black barbie. blink.gif I suspect that Beyonce is smarter than that and she's just "playing the game", like her fiance and advisor, Jay Z, doing whatever it takes to make the money. I think some entertainers make decisions regarding their appearance because they know it will get them further and not because they actually think that's what's beautiful. Same with the working class. I know people who want to go natural or lock their hair but can't because it's not acceptable in their profession. I don't know, I would love to ask Beyonce why.


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Moremi
Feb 22 2004, 10:10 PM
#53


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QUOTE (zapatista @ Feb 23 2004, 01:36 AM)
I have something else to add to this discussion tho... I was talking to a friend of mine who only dates white women.. and I asked him about it.. ya know.. like.. why do you ALWAYS date white women.. ya know.. just wondering.. and he was telling me that.. if he has mixed kids they will have an easier life and all this... how do you think more and more mixed children and mixed people come in to play in this growing shift toward a certain look? unsure.gif

Interesting. Mind if ask what race your friend is?

I'm reading the book "Soul On Ice" ... again... so this has been on my mind also.

Well, it's always been the case with African Americans, anyway, that the more white blood you had, the more privileges you received in society. Some blacks still try to pass as white. There is a well known family out here in Maryland, called the Proctors. They actually marry their cousins and stuff because they want to keep the "light skinned" looked in their family. sad.gif


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Sara
Feb 22 2004, 10:11 PM
#54


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well that's a good point, the only way to know why she goes blonde is to ask her laugh.gif

have u seen her video? me myself and i? doesnt she honestly look white? blink.gif

maybe she's playing the game, maybe she's so deep in the game that now she buys into the game, am i making sense...haha i guess what im trying to say is, sometimes when we adopt certain attitudes, even if we're just fronting and posing, after a while we really start believing in these notions uknow? it could've started with her wanting to look more "acceptable" to a wider range of ppl, but now she really thinks blonde is beautiful? it's not so much being smarted than lil kim, coz like i said, we're raised with certain values u know, and escaping them is quite hard sometimes. although i must say that if lil kim is aware of what she's doing and if she really believes that what she's doing is a result of what she's been growing up watching on TV, then it's time for her to get over it, i mean once we realise that there's a problem and we identify that causes, that's a step forward, towards a solution, so lil kim it's time to move on.

u know, i go blonde coz mom says i look prettier in blonde, but u know this discussion kinda put it all in perspective, great topic.


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Moremi
Feb 22 2004, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE (ozorage @ Feb 23 2004, 01:48 AM)
If you're white you're all right
If you're yellow you're mellow
If you're brown stick around
If you're black get back.

Yeah, I know that saying. There's a lot of truth in that. sad.gif


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zapatista
Feb 22 2004, 10:19 PM
#56


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QUOTE (Moremi @ Feb 23 2004, 01:10 AM)
Interesting. Mind if ask what race your friend is?

I'm reading the book "Soul On Ice" ... again... so this has been on my mind also.

Well, it's always been the case with African Americans, anyway, that the more white blood you had, the more privileges you received in society. Some blacks still try to pass as white. There is a well known family out here in Maryland, called the Proctors. They actually marry their cousins and stuff because they want to keep the "light skinned" looked in their family. sad.gif

He's black, and he's dark skinned.. a very handsome dark skinned man. We happen to be talking about interacial relationships and since i have NEVER seen him with a black woman in all the years I have known him I asked.. and he told me he wanted his children to be light skinned so they would have more opportunities. It's not even that he doesnt find black women attractive.. because he does, it's almost like he's breeding opportunities (for lack of a better phrase) for his children. At first being a multi-racial person myself.. it didn't make much sense to me.. but after reading everything that you have writen about it... I can kind of see why such toughts and ideals might come to someones mind...

oh.. and I read about the Proctors... that's soo... i dont even know.


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Moremi
Feb 22 2004, 10:21 PM
#57


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Totally agree about Lil Kim. She should stop making excuses and change.

No, I haven't seen the "Me, Myself and I" video. I don't watch MTV or BET anymore, for the same reasons we're talking about laugh.gif I don't like exposing myself that anymore, it's depressing. I just download videos from artists, who I know are going to have something positive to show me. I'll take your word ermm.gif


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Sara
Feb 22 2004, 10:28 PM
#58


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^ do u know if they make her look lighter? coz i swear, she looks very light skinned in that video...do they make her wear like body makeup two shades lighter or something...?

yeah i agree bout music videos...it's just getting a bit much.


but also, i was thinking today...beyonce doesnt look very typically black, but then again, what is a typical black? why is it typical? are we more likely to encounter a typical black person on the street than say a not so typical black person? maybe the idea of a typical black person was fed to us thru the media...?!


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Moremi
Feb 22 2004, 10:33 PM
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QUOTE (zapatista @ Feb 23 2004, 02:19 AM)
He's black, and he's dark skinned.. a very handsome dark skinned man. We happen to be talking about interacial relationships and since i have NEVER seen him with a black woman in all the years I have known him I asked.. and he told me he wanted his children to be light skinned so they would have more opportunities. It's not even that he doesnt find black women attractive.. because he does, it's almost like he's breeding opportunities (for lack of a better phrase) for his children. At first being a multi-racial person myself.. it didn't make much sense to me.. but after reading everything that you have writen about it... I can kind of see why such toughts and ideals might come to someones mind...

oh.. and I read about the Proctors... that's soo... i dont even know.

Unfortunately, I know one too many people like that sad.gif

Here's a quote from the book "Soul On Ice"

"Many Negroes believe, as the principle of assimilation into White America implies, that the race problem in America cannot be settled until all the traces of the black race are eliminated. Toward this end, many Negroes loathe the very idea of two very dark skinned Negroes mating. The children, they say will come out ugly. What they mean is that the children are sure to be black."

It's sad but this still holds true today. Some black people and other "minorities", hate the skin their in and marry outside of their race soley for the purpose of producing children that don't look like them. sad.gif


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Sara
Feb 22 2004, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (Moremi @ Feb 23 2004, 07:33 PM)
It's sad but this still holds true today. Some black people and other "minorities", hate the skin their in and marry outside of their race soley for the purpose of producing children that don't look like them. sad.gif

self hate is just so cruel.... ermm.gif


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