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> There's No Free Speech Left, merged with Screw Activism
zapatista
post Jun 10 2004, 09:48 PM
Post #16


är du också likgiltig?
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There is free speech, but with free speech comes responsibility. Taking responsibility for what one says. Buttercups SIG image was obviously racist. I take the argument that it was supposed to portray corporate America with a grain of salt. Because it didn't say or imply that anywhere on there... the argument that a suit implies that is asinine at best. No one here is a mind reader that I know of. If I put up "Jews will pay" or something like that, I would run out of here. No matter how I meant it. I hope that buttercup continues to enlighten us with the plight of her people. And keep education us about it. Because I find it very interesting.

I hope everyone here can agree that people of all races should be shown respect and judged on their individual personalities and character. I for one don't think there is any room on this forum for the racist garbage that has been polluting this site lately. We are all here, (most of us) for the same thing... and yadda yadda.... I got more to say.. But I got a headache just thinking about all this crap.


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Turd Ferguson
post Jun 10 2004, 09:51 PM
Post #17


bite me, it's fun
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QUOTE
I hope everyone here can agree that people of all races should be shown respect and judged on their individual personalities and character.

Have I gotten any respect lately? Not so much......
And this is supposed to be a liberal, free-thinking website.... rolleyes.gif
(well, i guess that only applies to people with certain kinds of priviledges...)


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Casbah
post Jun 10 2004, 09:56 PM
Post #18


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actually, earlier today i attempted to send an anonymous PM through someone else, there was no disrespect, only respect and compliments, and sympathy....if youd like id still send it to you wavenew.gif


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rev79
post Jun 10 2004, 10:01 PM
Post #19


Nun Chuka Kata
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QUOTE (kawaii_buttercup @ Jun 11 2004, 12:51 AM)

Have I gotten any respect lately?

No, not from whitey.
Done with ya...


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I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us, you're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end, I came here to tell you how this is going to begin. Now, I'm going to hang up this phone, and I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world...where anything is possible.
Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.


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DTA
post Jun 10 2004, 10:09 PM
Post #20


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wow i have never seen something like this on this site. wacko.gif


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Renegades
post Jun 10 2004, 10:45 PM
Post #21


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QUOTE (kawaii_buttercup @ Jun 11 2004, 05:33 PM)
Sarah, Rev, red@tm.net, Renegades, Holter.......

What do they know about being the minority? NOTHING!!! tongue.gif
Do they know the struggles of people of color?
Can they relate to having to literally claw your way through an Anglo-centric society based on racial priviledges???
Do they know what it's like to be a person of mixed heritage and not being accepted anywhere?

Hell no!

Look, you don't know anything about me okay? Don't presume I'm ignorant just because I'm an anglo. I've had shit in my life, what the hell makes you think that I can't comprehend what you've gone through? You've proven to me exactly what I thought your motives were in this post. Well fucking done.


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Holter
post Jun 10 2004, 11:39 PM
Post #22


BRUTAL HONESTY
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This is a general statement about my feelings right now about this forum after today’s debacle. Take it as you will, but I feel like I have something to say.

Ok well, I am trying to get past this because I think that all of this is rubbish, but I want to say a few things about the thread earlier.

First off, I have apologized about any name-calling or personal slander that I said that was malicious towards buttercup in private, it was wrong and terrible and I want to make sure that everyone knows that I feel that way, but I want to make sure everyone knows that I realize that I was wrong in that sense.

But the fact still remains that I think that racism towards whites anywhere is just as bad as any other racism in the world. In a place like this, where we all congregate to talk about the happenings of one of our favorite bands, who talked about minority oppression it seems to be for some reason overlooked when someone says well white society or white ceo's or whatever, even though that is just as racist as some dumb Nazi bastard who comes on here and says immigration is ruining the country because ethnicities are taking over. Each comment is equally racist, and the first gets overlooked for some reason the majority of the time.

I’ve said it before on here, I am WHITE, and I am NOT a racist. Race isn’t something that affects my decisions. Who here can honestly say that it doesn’t affect their decisions in life? In my life when bad things have happened to me, from my first reaction all the way to my last reaction, race never comes into my mind. A lot of you may think that "well that’s because he is white and he has had a good life of course he hasn’t been discriminated against", but right there when you think that, the discrimination from your end begins. White people in America, and specifically white males in America are generalized as rich guys who could "give two shits about anyone else, cause who cares about them, I’m filthy fucking rich!" This is the farthest thing from the truth. I am poor and each month I fight to keep myself in my apartment that I live in. Must be the fucking white people who are keeping me from having a good apartment and a good job, right?

When people say things that are viewed as racist, that is completely their right to say, and no one hear would tell them that they are not allowed to say that. This is the Internet, and people can generally say whatever the fuck they want. BUT, if you say something controversial that has the potential to offend someone, then you had better be willing to defend your statement because you better believe that people are going to come after you. People will always disagree in this world, and the people that can get through disagreements are the ones who will truly elevate their mind. That’s what we are all doing here isn’t it? We all want to learn on some level, and educate on another. There are loads of things that I don’t know about that I desperately want to learn about, and this forum is one of those places for me. I learn about people I have never heard about, like in the fast for education thread, so I look up who they are and read. So everyone has the right to freedom of speech on here, and no one is trying to take that away from anyone else. The only rule that I know of is that you are to refrain from subjecting anyone else from personal slander, and that is the rule that I broke on here, along with some other people.

So I've said my peace, and I will not call anyone a name again on this forum but I will NOT keep my mouth shut (or in this case my keyboard) just because I worry about someone getting mad at me, or people disagreeing with me.

This post has been edited by Holter: Jun 10 2004, 11:47 PM


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ImperialAerosolK...
post Jun 11 2004, 06:04 AM
Post #23


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QUOTE (Sarah @ Jun 11 2004, 05:44 AM)



ignorance prevails, yet again.

dont you know it
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ImperialAerosolK...
post Jun 11 2004, 06:07 AM
Post #24


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QUOTE (elisium @ Jun 11 2004, 06:09 AM)
wow i have never seen something like this on this site.  wacko.gif

oh no... i made the mistake of trying to help out some females who felt assaulted by some pretty misogynist posts. Have you ever been strung up for stating that we should keep an eye on folks who asked for my help???

to quote the joker -- "This town needs an enema."


and to respond to zap's point about jews. being the only jew here i have already seen latent anti-semitism here...if there are other jews i apologize...but i remember a great thread on woody allen that pretty much showed the ignorance of every militant black on the board. and they did this to defend Michael Jackson...a man who has spent his whole life trying to be white. so if you want bring up Judaeism on this board again get ready for some angst from the smartest guy here.

This post has been edited by Lpldbloom: Jun 11 2004, 06:33 AM
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angiedavis
post Jun 11 2004, 08:03 AM
Post #25


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QUOTE (Sarah @ Jun 11 2004, 05:29 AM)
no i didnt, did u read what i said, it was all bout the poster and the generalised hate. i stated that if one hates a specific group of oppressive ppl, name them, instead of the undifferentiated mass called "whitey".

I did one better Sarah and I printed that bullshit thread you started. You did mention her name this is what you stated: "(buttercup, I understand your anger, and I relate to your experiences with racism, but not your blind hate and senseless remarks)" and then you wrote some non-sequencial prose and in the end you stated "i hope u don't take offense, i don't mean to attack you, i'm attacking that poster though..."

And then mudslinging started against Kawaii...take responsibility for what you incited Sarah...



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I don't need to live my life in the shadows of expired sages. Me

It was written that I should be loyal to the nightmare of my choice. Joseph Conrad

There's something very wrong when people try to justify their use of a word this hateful or say they don't care who is offended whent hey use it...but you want to call me hypocrite. Get real! It's hypocrisy to pretend you care about racial relations in this country and then try to justify using a word that carries so much racial hatred.-Moremi

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Renegades
post Jun 11 2004, 08:28 AM
Post #26


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QUOTE (angiedavis @ Jun 12 2004, 04:03 AM)
And then mudslinging started against Kawaii...take responsibility for what you incited Sarah...

In all honesty, I think Kawaii should "take responsibility for what she incited"...


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"Do not be afraid of death so much as an inadequate life” - Bertolt Brecht

"I don't listen to what art critics say. I don't know anybody who needs a critic to find out what art is."
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angiedavis
post Jun 11 2004, 08:36 AM
Post #27


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Folks, what is it that she incited? Give specifics here...everything that I read from Kawaii is on point. I find her post to be very articulate she is very knowledgeable about her culture and history. I don't see how that can promote racism. I don't read that she is vilifying the entire white population...where in any of her post do you see a blatent disregard for an entire race...I want to see it...start posting links or quote these claims that you have against Kawaii..


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I don't need to live my life in the shadows of expired sages. Me

It was written that I should be loyal to the nightmare of my choice. Joseph Conrad

There's something very wrong when people try to justify their use of a word this hateful or say they don't care who is offended whent hey use it...but you want to call me hypocrite. Get real! It's hypocrisy to pretend you care about racial relations in this country and then try to justify using a word that carries so much racial hatred.-Moremi

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Renegades
post Jun 11 2004, 08:46 AM
Post #28


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QUOTE (kawaii_buttercup @ Jun 11 2004, 05:33 PM)
Sarah, Rev, red@tm.net, Renegades, Holter.......

What do they know about being the minority?  NOTHING!!!  tongue.gif
Do they know the struggles of people of color?
Can they relate to having to literally claw your way through an Anglo-centric society based on racial priviledges???
Do they know what it's like to be a person of mixed heritage and not being accepted anywhere?

Hell no!


This one, that picture we all know about; it's been a build up - even "The Last Samurai" thread in the film area turned into an arguement about victimised Asians in Hollywood (when in all honesty Hollywood is shit and who cares what they do?!). It's not 'poor little Kawaii', she's been building it up for ages.


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"Do not be afraid of death so much as an inadequate life” - Bertolt Brecht

"I don't listen to what art critics say. I don't know anybody who needs a critic to find out what art is."
- Jean-Michel Basquiat
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angiedavis
post Jun 11 2004, 09:06 AM
Post #29


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Well are you treated like shit on a daily basis? Let me ask you Renegades growing up did you deal with people taunting you because of the color of your skin? Did folks make reference to racist stereotypes to you? IF so did it feel like a deep swelling pain in your heart to hear someone chant those painful words? Was racism a part of your everyday life? Give some examples because I am interested in knowing how white people are affected by racism.

For people of color it is an everyday occurance and those trials of growing up being put down for the color of your skin, your name, your culture, your religion all those things will make you to who you are for better or worse. Any person that deals with racism is going to be forever altered by his or her experiences.

When Kawaii post she is speaking from a different perspective. From what you quoted, Renegades, I don't see any generalized bashing of white people.

Now maybe you can help me. I'm looking at the picture of the man in a business suit with the title "Whitey will pay"? In what context was this picture used that caused such an uproar amongst you, Holter, red@tm.net, rev and sarah?

You know, for the upteenth time, I don't read what Kawaii post as an all assault against white people...I just read it as her experiences with a handful of racist assholes.




--------------------
I don't need to live my life in the shadows of expired sages. Me

It was written that I should be loyal to the nightmare of my choice. Joseph Conrad

There's something very wrong when people try to justify their use of a word this hateful or say they don't care who is offended whent hey use it...but you want to call me hypocrite. Get real! It's hypocrisy to pretend you care about racial relations in this country and then try to justify using a word that carries so much racial hatred.-Moremi

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Renegades
post Jun 11 2004, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE
Well are you treated like shit on a daily  basis? Let me ask you Renegades growing up did you deal with people taunting you because of the color of your skin? Did folks make reference to racist stereotypes to you? IF so did  it feel like a deep swelling pain in your heart to  hear someone chant those painful words? Was racism a part of your everyday life? Give some examples because I am interested in knowing how white people are affected by racism.


Hey I come a family which was pretty fucked up okay? I mightn't have been taunted for having different skin, but coming home to 2 alcoholic parents isn't the 'whitey' American dream lifestyle either. You guys know my sister who used to post on this board nice_one_bruva? she was 15 when she was kicked onto the streets cause of them. I was living on a fucking island and couldnt contact her. You know what that's like? I've been a victim my entire life for other shit, why the hell should I be generalised as a 'whitey'?

QUOTE
For people of color it is an everyday occurance and those trials of growing up being put down for the color of your skin, your name, your culture, your religion all those things will make you to who you are for better or worse.  Any person that deals with racism is going to be forever altered by his or her experiences. 


Yeah. But I've still never said Kawaii was racist. I just told her it was unthoughtful and inconsiderate.

QUOTE
When Kawaii post she is speaking from a different perspective. From what you quoted, Renegades, I don't see any generalized bashing of white people.


She is inciting that I'm ignorant about her problem cause I'm white.

QUOTE
Now maybe you can help me. I'm looking at the picture of the man in a business suit with the title "Whitey will pay"? In what context was this picture used that caused such an uproar amongst you, Holter, red@tm.net, rev and sarah?


You know damn well that picture doesn't say anything about a CEO, it just says "whitey will pay", with that white guy standing there. It implies a message which I find offencive.







--------------------
"Do not be afraid of death so much as an inadequate life” - Bertolt Brecht

"I don't listen to what art critics say. I don't know anybody who needs a critic to find out what art is."
- Jean-Michel Basquiat
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