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> Plants And "pain"
Sara
post Jul 31 2003, 03:41 AM
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QUOTE (GreenEarthAl @ Jul 31 2003, 07:31 PM)
A plant that gets disected was not about to paint a picture, deliver an oration on social justice or even snuggle up to anyone and start purring.  The beauty of a plant lies within it's interaction with the animal kingdom and the atmosphere.  The ability to nourish, medicinal properties, oxygen production, aesthetics, etc.

i think this is why most people assume that plants don't feel pain, but this view, of them sunggling up and cuddling is not accurate, i mean shrimps don't snuggle up, neither do fishes, and ur viggetarian, so i'm assuming u dont eat seafood? you don't eat seafood coz they're animals? but they don't snuggle or cuddle, but they feel pain right? so why do plants have to sunggle up to convey a feeling of liveliness? what about mussles? they don't have pain receptors, so they dont feel pain, do u eat them? or because they are classified as animals, it's still a no no?


QUOTE
A plant that gets disected was not about to paint a picture, deliver an oration on social justice


anthropomorphism? u know, when we attribute traits that are unique to humans, to non-humans, it's a quite a limited view of the rest of the world. just because plants are not delivering social justice, it doesn't mean that it's ok to disect it does it?


that thing bout how plants are pretty and provide nourshiment, and all, sure they do, but same goes for animals too, i dont see how this view makes it ok to eat plants but not eat animals.

i also have to point out, that i'm not saying that we shouldn't eat plants, coz we obviously have to eat to survive, but like cosmic pointed out, they are living things too, and i believe that like every living things, they too feel pain.


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GreenEarthAl
post Jul 31 2003, 06:43 AM
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And I continue to disagree. I do not believe that plants have the capacity to process pain. Even a sophisticated plant like the Venus flytrap, an anomoly of sophistication in the plant world, is without sentience.

My little laundry list of things a plant will never do was just a beginning. As a vegitarian I personally do not eat seafood-- having to do with avoidance of PBTs as well as any morality type thing-- but yes I would place a sea muscle above a plant.

The world of organisms is conveniently divided into the things that have square cells and no thinking, and the things with the amorphic cells, many of which do think. I am able to slap a misquito on my arm without guilt, I don't believe I'm robbing it of much of a range of life.

Humans have a unique sophistication of thought, and I do feel it's time they started using that sophistication of thought to ponder what they are doing to the natural world through their population patterns and their self-interested focus on greedy persuits.



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cosmic
post Jul 31 2003, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE
Humans have a unique sophistication of thought, and I do feel it's time they started using that sophistication of thought to ponder what they are doing to the natural world through their population patterns and their self-interested focus on greedy persuits.



So is this why, sophisticated thought, we have the physical atributes of a carnivore but choose not to eat meat? Without this thought all humans would be putting their canines to use...and not discriminating between plants and animals, right? What other carnivore chooses to be vegetarian because of moral issues?


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Sara
post Aug 1 2003, 11:56 PM
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QUOTE (GreenEarthAl @ Aug 1 2003, 03:43 AM)
And I continue to disagree. I do not believe that plants have the capacity to process pain. Even a sophisticated plant like the Venus flytrap, an anomoly of sophistication in the plant world, is without sentience.


see this is precisely what i'm talking bout, anthropomorphism, it's a terrible way to view things, ur viewing them as inferior, even if ur not explicitly saying u r.


QUOTE
My little laundry list of things a plant will never do was just a beginning. As a vegitarian I personally do not eat seafood-- having to do with avoidance of PBTs as well as any morality type thing-- but yes I would place a sea muscle above a plant.



here ur saying that u don't eat seafood, mussles have no pain receptors, so they dont feel pain, but u dont eat it, yet u eat plants coz they dont feel pain wacko.gif
u also say u place mussle above a plant, no, this is not how they are viewd, it's not a hierarchy... unsure.gif



QUOTE
The world of organisms is conveniently divided into the things that have square cells and no thinking, and the things with the amorphic cells, many of which do think. I am able to slap a misquito on my arm without guilt, I don't believe I'm robbing it of much of a range of life.


square cells with no thinking? whaaat does this have to do with pain? u dont have to think to feel pain.


QUOTE
Humans have a unique sophistication of thought, and I do feel it's time they started using that sophistication of thought to ponder what they are doing to the natural world through their population patterns and their self-interested focus on greedy persuits.


it's funny how u talk about really how humans should just drop the attitude, yet u urself speak with the very typical arrogant human attitude of "the world of organisims is conveniently devided into etc etc" "conveniently"? since when this is how it works? the world wasnt made for our convenience....


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GreenEarthAl
post Aug 3 2003, 10:32 AM
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I have no problem saying explicitly that we have abilities that plants do not have and that I value those abilities more highly than I value what a plant does. To me, Michael Moore writing/directing a film like Bowling for Columbine is more interesting than Ficus sitting there doing its photosynthesis all day long.

Obviously, the agrigate value of plants is greater than the agrigate value of humans. If there were no more plants, all or nearly all life would die in pretty short order. If all humans were gone tomorrow, few other species would mind terribly.

I have yet to comprehend why anyone thinks I should feel remorse for a celery stalk that goes through a food processor. It's relatives aren't going to miss it, I do not believe that it is self aware, it just seems like a big non event to me. Another one just like it will begin to grow soon after. Whereas if you put a 7 year old child through the food processor, their family will be seriously pissed, all of their developing talents will all go for naught, the child will be aware of what's happening to it, etc.



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Rage Man Leca
post Aug 3 2003, 10:49 AM
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ok ok wowowow........your basing this on one fucking article........


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Rage Man Leca
post Aug 3 2003, 10:55 AM
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everyone is going crazy........haha told you planets feel pain etc.........its one article........don't take everything so seriously..........its the internet!

mellow.gif


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What exactly are the great historical accomplishments of your race that makes you pround to be white? Capitalism? Slavery? Genocide? Sitcoms? Guns? War? Pollution? NAFTA? This is your fucking white-history my friend.
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NATIONALISM ONLY BRINGS DEATH
NO BORDERS NO NATIONS
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cosmic
post Aug 3 2003, 11:27 AM
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Crazy? huh.gif What do you know about plant physiology and the dynamics of plant as a lifeform? If you have some undeniable truth that backs up your post, I'd be interested in hearing it. First, I'm not only going on that article...that's the closest one that I could find on the internet of the experiments I read at school. Second, were mostly talking about science that is cutting edge and practically, maybe mostly, philosophical.


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GreenEarthAl
post Aug 3 2003, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE (cosmic @ Jul 31 2003, 02:57 PM)

So is this why, sophisticated thought, we have the physical atributes of a carnivore but choose not to eat meat? Without this thought all humans would be putting their canines to use...and not discriminating between plants and animals, right? What other carnivore chooses to be vegetarian because of moral issues?


Humans have the physical characteristics of an omnivore.

Lions can eat antelope with a clear conscious because they don't clearcut a swath the size of France out of the Amazonian jumngles to raise antelopes. Also, I've tried talking to lions about the increasing amounts of PBTs in the food chain (PCBs especially) but they never listen to me. Lions just do whatever the fuck they feel like and damned if you can ever get them to listen to reason.



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cosmic
post Aug 3 2003, 12:38 PM
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Yea, I was just saying we have attributes of carnivores too.


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resist
post Aug 5 2003, 03:05 AM
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oh my god something just came to mind.................
lets just say we are not supposed to eat meat or plants
so the plants themselves grow us nuts and fruit to eat
when they fall of the plant its self that way we have something
to eat.












thankyou and goodnight cool.gif

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Moremi
post Aug 5 2003, 03:17 AM
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So you think we should be fruitarians? huh.gif

No thank you cool.gif


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Sara
post Aug 5 2003, 03:42 AM
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QUOTE (GreenEarthAl @ Aug 4 2003, 07:32 AM)
I have no problem saying explicitly that we have abilities that plants do not have and that I value those abilities more highly than I value what a plant does.  To me, Michael Moore writing/directing a film like Bowling for Columbine is more interesting than Ficus sitting there doing its photosynthesis all day long. 


is this bout plants being more intersting? no it's bout them feeling pain, is it ok to kill someone coz their boring? no it's not.


QUOTE
I have yet to comprehend why anyone thinks I should feel remorse for a celery stalk that goes through a food processor. It's relatives aren't going to miss it, I do not believe that it is self aware, it just seems like a big non event to me. Another one just like it will begin to grow soon after. Whereas if you put a 7 year old child through the food processor, their family will be seriously pissed, all of their developing talents will all go for naught, the child will be aware of what's happening to it, etc.



is this bout veggies being missed by others? fish isnt missed by it's mother, in fact, the mother fish drops eggs in the sea, and they later become fertilized, and thats that, there's no relationship between the mother and baby fish, yet u dont kill fish.

if i had no family would it justify killing me? i hope not.


it' not bout being missed, it's the notion that all living things feel pain.




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ImperialAerosolK...
post Mar 13 2004, 08:05 PM
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wow
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rampage
post Mar 13 2004, 09:31 PM
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No shit! my plants wouldn't stop screaming for water, they made me water them before I finished reading this post ~ they wanted to fill their viens wth the electrodes of their minds so they could be wide awake to hear me read this shit!

Hey~ they're my (shit some are over 24 years old) ficus'


what screaming puppies

i'd of thought someone dropped them out a window or something!

This post has been edited by rampage: Mar 13 2004, 09:32 PM


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.. and of course: fucking the heart break brigade until one truely learns to find the antichrist of one's own soul

no ones ever wanted to pay me shit.... oh yea they figure if i'm making money i should tell them all how because if i'm making money anyone should be able to do it... but otherwise if i go to them for opportunities.. they'd prefer i kiss their ass for nothing... or if i'm lucky i get to suck their dick!

these documents have been unsealed until 2069 in order to provide faith in fucking nothing dipshits
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