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> The Word: 'nigger'.
ImperialAerosolK...
post Jul 15 2003, 04:21 PM
Post #31


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QUOTE (ZDLRfan @ Jul 16 2003, 12:13 AM)


But what's different between the way Zack used it and they I am being told Mike D used it, is that Mike D called a black man "nigga". Zack on the other hand was not referring to anyone specifically.

ok...
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nice_one_bruva
post Jul 15 2003, 05:03 PM
Post #32


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i hearby conclude that usage of the word 'nigger' is.................

OFFENCIVE

therefore...........

UNEXCEPTABLE

and this includes zack.

i'm still confused on one remaining issue though, is mike d friends with that guy he called a nigga? it's frustrating me cause to me that's the key of this arguement. it's none of our business what mike d said to a mate of his.

clearly if this guy didn't care that mike d did, then what are we arguing about?

i'm re-reading your post about why it was okay for zack to say it, zdlrfan, but i still don't dig the favouritism.

if zack called a dark friend of his in public a nigger, say, blackalicious or sen dogg or someone like that - i'm under the impression that you would forgive him?


--------------------
She starts swingin with the boys in the school
with her feet flyin up in the air
Singing hey diddle diddle with a kitty in the middle
I was swingin like I didn't care
So I took a big chance at the high school dance
With a misses who was ready to play
Wasn't me she was foolin cause she knew what she was doin
when she told me how to walk this way...

Run-DMC
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zapatista
post Jul 16 2003, 05:37 AM
Post #33


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^Hold up...I don't think that's what she is saying at all...she never said it was OK for Zack to use the word. How many times does someone have to say they don't like the word used by anyone at anytime..Zack included.

I would be shocked absolutely shocked if Zack called someone a "nigga" He has used the word only twice that I know of 1. Center of the Storm (which zdlrfan already pointed out she was disappointed with and we don't know what he ment anyway..but it's safe to say Zack isn't a racist) 2. I'm Housin' - a cover by EPMD

but to get to your point. Is it any of our buisness what mates say between each other? (cause if i'm not mistaken...Mike D said this to Simmons...and I'm pretty sure they are friends still since the split from Def Jam.)
No, it's not any of our buisness...


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Moremi
post Jul 16 2003, 08:21 AM
Post #34


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Hell yes it's my business. It was said publically and sends the wrong message to people who read that article. If that's none of our business why are we even having this discussion? If you don't like the word don't buy the music...don't watch the videos, let's just pretend the problem doesn't exist...I think I blame Russel Simmons more than anything because it sounds like he allowed that to happen. Do you think Russel could have gotten away with calling a Jewish friend a "kike" or a white friend a "devil" or "cracker"? Had it been the other way around it would have been in every paper and people would have complained until he apologized and after the apology, the complaints would have continued!! I'm so sick of this trend I'm seeing among white people who think it's ok to use the word because "black people say it, why shouldn't I be allowed to?" Why would you want to? As if we've come so far that you think you can resort back to using the language your ancestors used to rape, kill and enslave Africans?

I could go on and on about this and delve into my own experiences but I don't think anything would be accomplished by that. If you have the time I think you should read this internet discussion:

HOW MANY OF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY THE WORD NIGGA?

There is a great discussion going on there! I would recommend that everyone at least read the first page smile.gif



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Moremi
post Jul 16 2003, 08:31 AM
Post #35


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QUOTE (zapatista @ Jul 14 2003, 07:18 PM)
QUOTE
Nigger is Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy's ornate, lively monograph on what he calls the "paradigmatic" racial slur in the English language. A neutral noun in the 17th century, nigger had, by 1830, become an "influential" insult. Kennedy traces the word's history in literature, song, film, politics, sports, everyday speech, and the courtroom. He also discusses its plastic, contradictory, and volatile place in contemporary American society. Should it be eradicated from dictionaries and the language? Should it be, somehow, regulated? What is the significance of its emergence among some blacks as a term with "undertones of warmth and good will"? Do blacks have a historical right to its use or does that place the term under a "protectionist pall"? With courage and grave measure Kennedy has, in effect, created a forum for discussion of the word he calls a "reminder of the ironies and dilemmas, the tragedies and glories, of the American experience." --H. O'Billovitch


This book was writen by an african american law professor and it's a real good book about the debate of the word. He covers all sides. I suggest it for anyone really interested in learning about the roots of the word and all view points. It's not very bit either...and it's a quick intereseting read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/037...1672923-0462562

I would have to disagree. I don't think he does a great job covering both sides and that book has gotten a lot of bad press from the African American community. I was trying to find an editorial I read about it but can't seem to locate it. Anyway, here is another good one:

Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word

I think it raises a lot of great points that people who support the book should think about.


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\o/
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zapatista
post Jul 16 2003, 08:36 AM
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huh.gif

See the problem is no one said it was in an artical...All I read is that he said it..if he and Sims..were chillin by the pool and Mike D said that to him..and someone just printed it or said "oh, you hear that! You hear what Mike D called Simmons?" That's different as far as who's buisness it is (either way it's not ok...but if simmons doesn't have a problem with it..) now if Mike D called him that in an article, talking about simmons. That's just WRONG! And if i had been Simmons I would have been all over his ass! And your absolutely right if Simmons had called a white person a name he never would have gotten away with it.
I will never understand why anyone wants to use the word, black or white.
I don't understand why people would want to use racial slurs period!

Anyway, I'm glad this was brought up actually and your insites are invaluable zdlrfan.


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cosmic
post Jul 16 2003, 08:48 AM
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People must understand, including African-Americans, that the word "nigger" is probably the worst ethnophaulism of all time. Created by evil people, used by ignorant and evil people, then spread to the masses by ignorant people. Its the ultimate racist term and expression of white superiority. ...evil people people of the present and the past are laughing all the way to the bank.


--------------------


Classic
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Moremi
post Jul 16 2003, 08:51 AM
Post #38


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QUOTE (zapatista @ Jul 16 2003, 12:36 PM)
huh.gif

See the problem is no one said it was in an artical...All I read is that he said it..if he and Sims..were chillin by the pool and Mike D said that to him..and someone just printed it or said "oh, you hear that! You hear what Mike D called Simmons?" That's different as far as who's buisness it is (either way it's not ok...but if simmons doesn't have a problem with it..) now if Mike D called him that in an article, talking about simmons. That's just WRONG! And if i had been Simmons I would have been all over his ass! And your absolutely right if Simmons had called a white person a name he never would have gotten away with it.
I will never understand why anyone wants to use the word, black or white.
I don't understand why people would want to use racial slurs period!

Anyway, I'm glad this was brought up actually and your insites are invaluable zdlrfan.

I hear ya zap smile.gif

Here's what i read though:

QUOTE
I think words like "nigger" and "faggot" are almost earned. I remember reading an interview in Grand Royal where Mike D called Russell Simmons "nigger" and I don't recall any riots. Let's put it this way -- Mike D is blacker than OJ Simpson and has earned the credibility amongst his black friends. Same goes with gay people. As the only straight guy on St. Mark's Place in 1993 I was suddenly immersed in gay culture. I HAD to be hip or I would have been humiliated. And with that came the casual use of the word "faggot". Like was said words are combinations of letters and have no use without emotion.


Did I miss something? huh.gif


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Efin ni iwa; o ma nru.

\o/
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Moremi
post Jul 16 2003, 08:52 AM
Post #39


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QUOTE (cosmic @ Jul 16 2003, 12:48 PM)
People must understand, including African-Americans, that the word "nigger" is probably the worst ethnophaulism of all time. Created by evil people, used by ignorant and evil people, then spread to the masses by ignorant people. Its the ultimate racist term and expression of white superiority. ...evil people people of the present and the past are laughing all the way to the bank.

Amen!


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Efin ni iwa; o ma nru.

\o/
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nice_one_bruva
post Jul 16 2003, 08:00 PM
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it's a strong and offencieve word, i don't use it smile.gif - but i don't mind if others do.

whether you like it or not it's used quite commonly, and only society can change that.


--------------------
She starts swingin with the boys in the school
with her feet flyin up in the air
Singing hey diddle diddle with a kitty in the middle
I was swingin like I didn't care
So I took a big chance at the high school dance
With a misses who was ready to play
Wasn't me she was foolin cause she knew what she was doin
when she told me how to walk this way...

Run-DMC
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zapatista
post Jul 17 2003, 08:32 AM
Post #41


är du också likgiltig?
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how can you find something "strongly offensive" and not care if people say it? unsure.gif
To me that says your not offended by it at all.


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ImperialAerosolK...
post Jul 17 2003, 08:56 AM
Post #42


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QUOTE (zapatista @ Jul 17 2003, 04:32 PM)
how can you find something "strongly offensive" and not care if people say it?

There's been a whole lot of vagueness on this issue. It's amazing how ambivalent people are about semantics.
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Moremi
post Jul 17 2003, 11:17 AM
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It's true that I can't stop people from saying it. It's also true that nigger has other meanings among black people. Sometimes, the way it's used among black people is also very negative and degrading. But I think the whole concept of using anything that was given to us by our oppressors, to enslave our minds and spirits and trying to make it a positive thing, is ridiculous. We're just continuing where master left off. That word will always invoke bad feelings because it's the language of our oppressors. If it really was a positive word, black people who use it would also be comfortable with other races using it because it no longer holds that racist meaning to them, right? But that's not the case. Why? Because it still hurts.

I scanned a few fliers that were distributed by the KKK close to this town where my family lived for a while. My parents held on to these for over 20 years. I'm posting it because it's one of the reasons the word strikes such a strong chord with me. The word will never be positive and the sooner people realize that, the sooner we can stop hurting each other.

The fliers are very old but still legible.

user posted image


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zapatista
post Jul 17 2003, 11:19 AM
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that's awful! mad.gif


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Moremi
post Jul 17 2003, 11:45 AM
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I know Sam sad.gif

Correction: My mom tells me the fliers were distributed around 1966. And the stain there is blood blink.gif But she doesn't remember how it occurred. The klan would rally a lot in that area. Bloodshed usually follows ignorance, I guess...

Front:
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Back:
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