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> The Word: 'nigger'.
nice_one_bruva
post Jul 14 2003, 02:42 PM
Post #16


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groups like nwa give kids the impression that using the word nigger is okay.


--------------------
She starts swingin with the boys in the school
with her feet flyin up in the air
Singing hey diddle diddle with a kitty in the middle
I was swingin like I didn't care
So I took a big chance at the high school dance
With a misses who was ready to play
Wasn't me she was foolin cause she knew what she was doin
when she told me how to walk this way...

Run-DMC
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ImperialAerosolK...
post Jul 14 2003, 02:56 PM
Post #17


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as much as i disagree with flippant use of the word nigger, I also support the right for groups like NWA to use it. The word sucks but you can't blame gangster rap for "promoting" it. It would be like blaming gangster rap for police violence or something. It's all part of the poetry to NWA and the like....
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zapatista
post Jul 14 2003, 03:18 PM
Post #18


är du också likgiltig?
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QUOTE
Nigger is Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy's ornate, lively monograph on what he calls the "paradigmatic" racial slur in the English language. A neutral noun in the 17th century, nigger had, by 1830, become an "influential" insult. Kennedy traces the word's history in literature, song, film, politics, sports, everyday speech, and the courtroom. He also discusses its plastic, contradictory, and volatile place in contemporary American society. Should it be eradicated from dictionaries and the language? Should it be, somehow, regulated? What is the significance of its emergence among some blacks as a term with "undertones of warmth and good will"? Do blacks have a historical right to its use or does that place the term under a "protectionist pall"? With courage and grave measure Kennedy has, in effect, created a forum for discussion of the word he calls a "reminder of the ironies and dilemmas, the tragedies and glories, of the American experience." --H. O'Billovitch


This book was writen by an african american law professor and it's a real good book about the debate of the word. He covers all sides. I suggest it for anyone really interested in learning about the roots of the word and all view points. It's not very bit either...and it's a quick intereseting read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/037...1672923-0462562


--------------------
Hey we got the PMA. Hey we got the PMA.
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dreamer997
post Jul 15 2003, 12:46 AM
Post #19


Words are the most powerdul weapon we have these days
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I saw someone compare 'nigger' with 'fuck'. But really I do not know what should be wrong with the word 'fuck'. If it is such a dirty word, we all on the earth are dirty, how the hell do you think we got here. By the people that fucked. Okey doesn't sound romantic. But in my opinion fuck is the word for lust sex. And here in the netherlands, no one feels guilty by using it. But here there is no cencorship. And I am glad, like as if you can stop children saying those words if you keeep censoring that shit, they Do know what is being said when they hear PIEP PIEP.

Conclusion: You can not compare the word 'nigger' with the word 'fuck'. Because fucking is something that the most part of the world does and 'nigger' is a racist word.


--------------------
"Only the dead have seen the end of the war"
Plato

Now go we in content
To liberty, and not to banishment."

--From As You Like It (I, iii, 139-14)
William Shakespeare
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Moremi
post Jul 15 2003, 01:32 AM
Post #20


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QUOTE (nice_one_bruva @ Jul 14 2003, 06:42 PM)
groups like nwa give kids the impression that using the word nigger is okay.

No, I don't think we can blame it on NWA.

Black people...well, white people too, have been using the word nigger for ages. But if you listen to black comedians like Moms Mabley, who was born in the 1800's, or even Richard Pryor, you'll see that with black people, it is not used in a derogatory way. That hasn't been the case with whites.

As I said, I've learned to accept it in some contexts - when it's used by blacks. But it's never ok for a white person to use the word, IMO. That's just common sense.


--------------------
Efin ni iwa; o ma nru.

\o/
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Moremi
post Jul 15 2003, 01:39 AM
Post #21


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QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jul 14 2003, 06:56 PM)
as much as i disagree with flippant use of the word nigger, I also support the right for groups like NWA to use it. The word sucks but you can't blame gangster rap for "promoting" it. It would be like blaming gangster rap for police violence or something. It's all part of the poetry to NWA and the like....

I agree. Great point. But I must say, I think it's time the word is replaced with something that doesn't have such a negative history. It would be a lot more positive to just say "brother" or "sister".


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Efin ni iwa; o ma nru.

\o/
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Renegades
post Jul 15 2003, 03:26 AM
Post #22


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QUOTE (ZDLRfan @ Jul 15 2003, 09:35 AM)
QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jul 13 2003, 06:01 AM)
I think words like "nigger" and "faggot" are almost earned. I remember reading an interview in Grand Royal where Mike D called Russell Simmons "nigger" and I don't recall any riots. Let's put it this way -- Mike D is blacker than OJ Simpson and has earned the credibility amongst his black friends. Same goes with gay people. As the only straight guy on St. Mark's Place in 1993 I was suddenly immersed in gay culture. I HAD to be hip or I would have been humiliated. And with that came the casual use of the word "faggot". Like was said words are combinations of letters and have no use without emotion.

I was unaware that Mike D said that... huh.gif

If Russel Simmons is dumb enough to have a white man call him nigger and he did nothing, then he's a fucking idiot. But had it been me, I would have whooped his ass and wiped the floor with it. mad.gif

Mike D and the rest of the Beastie Boys released their first album in 1986. Not to mention they were rapping long before that too - they're just as much part of Hip Hop culture as any other act, black or white.

Like many words, the context is vital for the full power of the word to come out.

In that example, I'm offended that you could accuse Mike D for using the word "nigger" in bad context.

My point is, it was Hip Hop culture that gave the word "nigger" the thumbs up - the word no longer means what it did, to a certain extent, twenty years ago. It was first commonly used by acts like NWA, Public Enemy and the big shots like 2Pac and the Notorious B.I.G. And now it's more common than ever, with Wu-Tang Clan, Snoop Dogg etc... I don't even know who Russell Simmons is, but all I know is that I doubt Mike D ment that comment in a negative or offencive kind of way.

Cut the double standard shit, I'm sick of it.

Mike D's just as much an MC as Dr. Dre or anyone else along those lines, but people take what he says out of context because he's white. People act like that just because Dre's black, it's okay for him to use words like "nigger".

Do you honestly think it's okay for black people to say it, and not white people - no matter what the context?

Culture is culture, and Mike D is a deep scratch in Hip Hop culture. Leave him out of it.


--------------------
"Do not be afraid of death so much as an inadequate life” - Bertolt Brecht

"I don't listen to what art critics say. I don't know anybody who needs a critic to find out what art is."
- Jean-Michel Basquiat
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Moremi
post Jul 15 2003, 04:08 AM
Post #23


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QUOTE (Renegades @ Jul 15 2003, 07:26 AM)
Mike D and the rest of the Beastie Boys released their first album in 1986. Not to mention they were rapping long before that too - they're just as much part of Hip Hop culture as any other act, black or white.

Like many words, the context is vital for the full power of the word to come out.

In that example, I'm offended that you could accuse Mike D for using the word "nigger" in bad context.

My point is, it was Hip Hop culture that gave the word "nigger" the thumbs up - the word no longer means what it did, to a certain extent, twenty years ago. It was first commonly used by acts like NWA, Public Enemy and the big shots like 2Pac and the Notorious B.I.G. And now it's more common than ever, with Wu-Tang Clan, Snoop Dogg etc... I don't even know who Russell Simmons is, but all I know is that I doubt Mike D ment that comment in a negative or offencive kind of way.

Cut the double standard shit, I'm sick of it.

Mike D's just as much an MC as Dr. Dre or anyone else along those lines, but people take what he says out of context because he's white. People act like that just because Dre's black, it's okay for him to use words like "nigger".

Do you honestly think it's okay for black people to say it, and not white people - no matter what the context?

Culture is culture, and Mike D is a deep scratch in Hip Hop culture. Leave him out of it.

If you read any of my post here then you already know I don't like the word being used, period. But the fact is, it has had a different meaning to black people before hip hop. I think it's an insult for you or anyone else to say that just because a white person is into hop hop culture they have a license to use the word nigger. There are many things about Spanish culture that I like but I would never feel I have the right to say certain things people of that culture say among themselves.

Look I don't care how many rap albums you put out. You haven't been in my shoes. Call me a nigger, I'm going to fuck you up. And I guarantee you a lot of black people feel that way. Maybe there wasn't a lot of hype about what Mike D said because a lot of black people don't listen to the Beastie Boys anyway.

I don't care how he meant it. He shouldn't have said it.


--------------------
Efin ni iwa; o ma nru.

\o/
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rage baby
post Jul 15 2003, 07:14 AM
Post #24


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the word "nigger" has come a long way. the rappers these days say they use that word cause they want to change the meaning of it however i just think it undermines what it really means and who it's directed to.


--------------------
They use the flag to control us
Brainwash us to be their patrotic slaves
Programs our minds by controlling what we learn
The only difference from the nazis is that
Someone tried to stop them
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
The government says they're working for us
Just as long as we increase their pay
But the minute they get into office we're a has-been
A yesterday
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
The red stands for the blood of all the people
We've slain
The white for this racist, bigoted foundation
The blue for your arayan eyes -- all empty
Empty because you're taught to bow down to the man
"Fly that flag, that flag of freedom"
"Do what you can for your country"
Go and fight their wars for them
"They're not following in our footsteps,
KILL THEM!"
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
They call that being a patriot
I just call it ignorant
If you don't fight to make things better
Then you're the one betraying the country
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
RED WHITE AND BRAINWASHED
~anti-flag
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Moremi
post Jul 15 2003, 08:33 AM
Post #25


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QUOTE (rage baby @ Jul 15 2003, 11:14 AM)
the word "nigger" has come a long way. the rappers these days say they use that word cause they want to change the meaning of it however i just think it undermines what it really means and who it's directed to.


I don't think "nigger" has come a long way. The thing people don't want to realize is that it has always been used in the black community. The only difference is you have mainstream America embracing hip hop culture, so it is getting more exposure. Rappers aren't using it any differently than the way entertainers like Moms Mabley or Richard Pryor used it. So they aren't changing anything. Just creating problems, I think.

And I believe it was Richard Pryor who said he would never use the word nigger again after visiting Africa. He said the trip helped him realize he came from a great people and he never used the word after that.

Anyway, blackplanet.com took a poll about it once. I'll try to find it ermm.gif


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Efin ni iwa; o ma nru.

\o/
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Moremi
post Jul 15 2003, 08:39 AM
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Something else I need to get of my chest:

Just because there are a few foolish, confused or self hating black people who are ok with their white friends calling them nigger, doesn't mean all black people are ok with. In fact, most black people are not.

The handful of rappers people mention do not represent how the majority of black people feel about the word. They don't speak for my community any more than your white, Spanish, Asian, Indian, or Jewish entertainers speak for yours.

I think the more important question is, "why would a white person want to use the word?". Knowing the history and all the pain that goes behind it and the emotion that it can conjure up, why would you want to say it?


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Efin ni iwa; o ma nru.

\o/
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zapatista
post Jul 15 2003, 10:23 AM
Post #27


är du också likgiltig?
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^I understand what your saying and I agree..i don't think a white person ever has the right to call someone a "nigger". but how do you feel about other races saying it..for example...zack said it..and he's not black. actually i think i remember you saying something about zack saying it..so how do you feel about it in general?


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Moremi
post Jul 15 2003, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (zapatista @ Jul 15 2003, 02:23 PM)
^I understand what your saying and I agree..i don't think a white person ever has the right to call someone a "nigger". but how do you feel about other races saying it..for example...zack said it..and he's not black. actually i think i remember you saying something about zack saying it..so how do you feel about it in general?

Honestly, when I heard Centre of the Storm, I was disappointed by that line where he uses the word "nigga". But it didn't change my opinion of him. I know Zack is not a racist and I love what he does but it's a touchy issue. I think he has a very valuable message and that message can get lost among some people if he starts using that word.

To answer your question, I don't like to hear anyone use the word "nigger" but it's especially offensive coming from non blacks. Black people have always dealt with suffering through humor. Sometimes by poking fun at very serious experiences in ways that may seem wrong to people who are not black - but it's a survival mechanism. Sometimes you have to make light of situations that might drive you mad if you took them too close to heart. So although it is still wrong, the meaning is different and the reasons for using it are different. I'm sure there are more positive ways non blacks can show their respect or appreciation for the culture without offending so many of us.


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\o/
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ImperialAerosolK...
post Jul 15 2003, 03:36 PM
Post #29


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QUOTE (ZDLRfan @ Jul 15 2003, 07:32 PM)

Honestly, when I heard Centre of the Storm, I was disappointed by that line where he uses the word "nigga". But it didn't change my opinion of him. I know Zack is not a racist and I love what he does but it's a touchy issue. I think he has a very valuable message and that message can get lost among some people if he starts using that word.


I dont understand what makes Zack exempt. I love the guy too but what makes it any worse than Mike D?
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Moremi
post Jul 15 2003, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (Lpldbloom @ Jul 15 2003, 07:36 PM)
what makes Zack exempt. I love the guy too but what makes it any worse than Mike D?

Let me repeat: I don't like anyone using the word.

But what's different between the way Zack used it and they I am being told Mike D used it, is that Mike D called a black man "nigga". Zack on the other hand was not referring to anyone specifically. I don't even know how he meant it and probably never will because he doesn't explain his lyrics.


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\o/
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