Zack de la Rocha Network Forum _ .:: Zdlr.net Polls ::. _ Ratm Or Perfect Government

: Rage Head Jan 2 2005, 06:39 PM

Would you rather have Rage Against the Machine come back together, or would you rather have the government that you like best to come into play? Now do realize, that the government you like won't make everyone happy, but at least you, maybe.

: insurrection Jan 2 2005, 07:40 PM

QUOTE(Rage Head @ Jan 2 2005, 10:39 PM)
Would you rather have Rage Against the Machine come back together, or would you rather have the government that you like best to come into play? Now do realize, that the government you like won't make everyone happy, but at least you, maybe.
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I'd rather have no government and have Rage come back together... heh.

: rev79 Jan 2 2005, 11:46 PM

Anything in the poll section should have a poll with it.

: Rage Head Jan 3 2005, 05:51 AM

I couldn't make one, since your a zdlr mod dude, can't you fix it?

: RENNEGADE Jan 4 2005, 07:15 PM

i rather have rage back

: EZLN libertad Jan 9 2005, 10:36 AM

rage 'cause they'd change the system

for the better

: RENNEGADE Jan 9 2005, 12:37 PM

QUOTE(EZLN libertad @ Jan 9 2005, 10:36 AM)
rage 'cause they'd change the system

for the better
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damn right

: zapatista Jan 11 2005, 11:20 PM

an ideal government of course.. or maybe no government at all.

: Sara Jan 12 2005, 12:33 AM

QUOTE(EZLN libertad @ Jan 10 2005, 07:36 AM)
rage 'cause they'd change the system

for the better
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if they could, it would've happened by now.

: Grimer 54 Jan 12 2005, 05:44 AM

I think this questions is sposed to be cute.

I went for the rational answer of the perfect government. But we'd make Ashes in the Fall our national anthem!

: Casbah Jan 12 2005, 09:44 AM

QUOTE(EZLN libertad @ Jan 9 2005, 06:36 PM)
rage 'cause they'd change the system

for the better
[right][snapback]151798[/snapback][/right]


Crylol.gif


wow, this thread=lame laugh.gif

its all good

: rev79 Jan 12 2005, 09:46 AM

Anybody who votes option #1 has a few bricks missing from their building.

: TheShootingStar Jan 12 2005, 10:09 AM

RATM back together!!!!! clap2.gif


laughing.gif

: Rage Head Jan 12 2005, 03:54 PM

I put Rage back together, because my idea of a perfect government would make other people really mad, unless you just delt with it. But there's always problems, and then I'd be the norm. It's hard, but alot of my fellow zdlr peeps, yes you all, wouldn't like my government most likely.

: Metzli Jan 12 2005, 04:09 PM

Will there ever be a "perfect goverment"? That is a contradiction in itself!! Crylol.gif So We might as well enjoy Rage in our lifetime... since only ONE out of those two are actually possible. laughing.gif


maybe not! tongue.gif

: ChiLanGa Jan 12 2005, 04:22 PM

QUOTE(Sara @ Jan 12 2005, 12:33 AM)
QUOTE(EZLN libertad @ Jan 10 2005, 07:36 AM)
rage 'cause they'd change the system

for the better
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if they could, it would've happened by now.
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Absolutely. I dont think they'll be able to make a political change through music.
Theyve made people aware yes... no dramatic changes so far.


: Rage Head Jan 12 2005, 07:22 PM

I don't think a whole government change, but maybe they'll get people to realize the injustice around them, and more protests will come to help certain things. But the government, I don't think they could change. Like if they kept going and got enough people, they might be able to get an active force to protest for Mumia or Peltier, which would be awesome. I think it could be done, but not a gov. change.

: rampage Jan 13 2005, 03:15 AM

so i was wondering who came up with that angelic plan in the first place?


the angelic government


laughing.gif

sure that crap'll stick forever and ever and ever

laughing.gif

: rampage Jan 13 2005, 03:23 AM

i'm sorry

i didnt mean to be rude

yes!

i hope the majic goverment fairy comes to kiss your fairy ass every night of your majic dream night so that every day with be your jackpot at the end of the rainbow of gold

doh.gif

: Lostphoenix Jan 17 2005, 03:10 AM

since we all have different perception of what is perfect, i dont believe there ever will be perfect goverment, so being realistic, i went for rage, and i dont believe i have a brick missing in my building, more common sense! the only way to work out politricks is no goverment at all, back to the tribal system on the perfect circle political system - each of the tribe gets the say and decisions are taken on local level, which is the only level that one can influence without a major fuck up, better local fuck up the global fuck up. and festive get arounds with the other tribes, to get merry, pissed, and make love(in uncomplicated manner) and be friends stuff like that. sort out the grievances as friends should by listening to each other and finding best solution for the problem to benefit both parties. somehow i dont see this happening.

i could see rage back as more realistic, although i have not much hopes for it either..... but keep on hopin hey?

: Amito Jan 17 2005, 08:03 AM

yeh i also voted 4 rage to get back together as they were an awesome band with a message plus everyone has different views on a perfect government

: timbob Jan 17 2005, 05:18 PM

eh, get ratm back lol, worry about the governemnt later.

: zapatista Jan 17 2005, 07:13 PM

I can't believe rage is winning this... i'm guessing people don't actually LISTEN to rage.

: ChiLanGa Jan 17 2005, 08:41 PM

ermm.gif I have found that almost every rage fan i've met, doesnt have a fu#!*ng clue.
key word here is MET ... i have never met any of you.
I
dont know how many kids i've seen wearing Rage shirts with Ernesto Guevara (Che) on the front...

"do you know who that is?"
"yeah its the guy Rage Against The Machine have on their amp" ohno.gif wacko.gif

: Casbah Jan 17 2005, 09:01 PM

QUOTE(ChiLanGa @ Jan 18 2005, 04:41 AM)
ermm.gif  I have found that almost every rage fan i've met, doesnt have a fu#!*ng clue.
key word here is MET ... i have never met any of you.
I
dont know how many kids i've seen wearing Rage shirts with Ernesto Guevara (Che) on the front... 

"do you know who that is?"
"yeah its the guy Rage Against The Machine have on their amp"  ohno.gif  wacko.gif
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yep.


one time in highschool i had a kid argue with me. i mean he REALLY believed it was zack on this patch i had on a jacket..


dumbass.



omg teh che! yeah ratm rocks i hate the government! tight! rolleyes.gif

: timbob Jan 17 2005, 09:53 PM

well wtf do you expect!? im a fucken ratm fan, i understand wat ur saying. dont take this poll so seriously....

ive had the same thing with che, i was wearing my che shirt (which is a contradiction in itself, but lets not get into that, im a che fan, i like people to know i am) and some clown goes ask me the question do i wear it cause i like ratm or che? phools.

i have my ratm shirts and my che shirt. has anyone seen the motorcycle dairies yet? i've read the book, but havent seen the movie yert.

: Lostphoenix Jan 18 2005, 01:40 AM

QUOTE(zapatista @ Jan 18 2005, 03:13 AM)
I can't believe rage is winning this... i'm guessing people don't actually LISTEN to rage.
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i think if you listen to rage, they are not favouring any goverment. they are not for replacing one machine with another. maybe we are more realistic as to the point that whatever person you exchange at the top, the system will be the same. to crush the system is not just cosmetic surgery. its not replacing something that doesnt work with another driver. car that doesnt work wont work whoever drives it.....

: regilas Jan 20 2005, 12:13 PM

Would it be better to have the problem, or have a solution?

I vote the for the government to be perfect, since many people could learn to get along in a socialist way of life. The reason Rage was formed was because they were sick of the government and its policies. If we got a "perfect government," then we wouldn't need Rage. The reason I like Rage is because of the music and the politics. If the politics were mostly solved, why should we need the music part? It would only be a fragment of history, when the country was under the rule of imperialists.

: defiance Jan 20 2005, 07:52 PM

I vote perfect government. And then we can still enjoy Zack's music, and mayeb some they'll get together again anway, even without our votes, lol.

Who cares if not everyone's happy with it. That will always be the case. Not everyone's happy with or like RATM either. So what? What matters to me is social justice, that's the first and foremost reason why I love RATM. And Zack is still making good music. And the rest of the band is in Audioslave. I don't really know much Audioslave, and what I do know isn't nearly as good as Rage, but still, they might move on to bigger and better things. Tom Morello has the Nightwatchman, which is awesome, at least the one song of his that I know (No One Left). It may be that it this point, because they are split up, they will go on to make more diverse and unique music of their own, all of it with political messages, and it will allow the role that Rage played as a band to move further forward.

I bet you Zack would vote perfect government (or no government maybe, I'm not sure if he's an anarchist, but either way its the political). I know that for a fact!! Lol.

: regilas Jan 23 2005, 10:19 AM

^ Zack, I believe is a socialist.

Another fact is that I don't believe Audioslave has made a single political song, defiance. That's a drawback. I think that's why Tom Morello also goes solo in his Nightwatchman career. Just keep that in mind. wink.gif

: freedom_mumia Jan 25 2005, 03:47 PM

Perfect Government is definatly my vote, I mean of course I love RATM but when I put the two on the scales Perfect Gov. wins hands down. REPUBLIC!

: Rage Head Jan 26 2005, 10:52 AM

boo. haha, sorry just giving you a hard time. do realize that a perfect government is your idea of a perfect government, many people won't be happy with it, I'd want everyone happy, but that's impossible.

: cherry-pop Jan 26 2005, 01:03 PM

QUOTE(Metzli @ Jan 13 2005, 12:09 AM)
Will there ever be a "perfect goverment"? That is a contradiction in itself!! Crylol.gif So We might as well enjoy Rage in our lifetime... since only ONE out of those two are actually possible. laughing.gif


maybe not! tongue.gif
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agreed. everyone has a different opinion of what would be "perfect" so technically there is always gonna be a hell of a lot of people to complain about something they wanna change. wallbash.gif jerry.gif

: regilas Feb 6 2005, 06:19 PM

Everyone won't be happy at FIRST, Rage Head, but if we established a perfect government to the majority's eye, and we didn't exploit people, and everyone in the world were treated as people, and we began to respect our fellow beings, then eventually, we would all be happy.

Besides, I think there are more people unhappy now than if we were to establish my idea of a perfect government.

: Rage Head Feb 6 2005, 07:33 PM

well that's kind of true, yet in my perfect government, I wouldn't want abortions, but might still have them legal anyways, but if I didn't, that would make people unhappy, and if I did that would make other people unhappy. it's the little things, but I see what your saying

: Lostphoenix Feb 7 2005, 03:09 AM

well, perfect goverment is perfect utopia. if it happens, not in our lifetimes, not to mention that in 20 years England will have temperatures of Africa, africa will be inhabitable and absolutely majority of the world will be inhabitable and at places htat will be habitable there will be a war of survival, war for land. so what will be habitable, people will kill each other first. so unless we change the way we are destroying the planet, rest assured that our children will be the last humans on this planet unless they will be enlightened and treat each other with respect and help each other survive on the little land left. and still humanity will be reduced to the tribe - that would be a perfect goverment for me. equal members of tribe, each member having a role within a tribe and all people respecting each other. that takes a lot of meditation! and compassion! so the question should have been will human race survive or the ratm gets together? so before world goes bye bye, we can have ratm united to play us to die at least happy.
i think i read too many enviromental issues. sorry to bring you pessimistic prognossis of enviroment and squash dreams of perfect goverment.

: PlzCheHelpMe Feb 20 2005, 12:34 PM

This is a ridiculous question. Id kill rage for the perfect government, and im sure theyd let it happen to. 4 lives to pay to abolish opression... Get your priorities straight.

: Casbah Feb 21 2005, 01:01 PM

QUOTE(PlzCheHelpMe @ Feb 20 2005, 08:34 PM)
This is a ridiculous question. Id kill rage for the perfect government, and im sure theyd let it happen to. 4 lives to pay to abolish opression... Get your priorities straight.
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yeah, im pretty sure tim, tom, brad and zack are ready to become martyrs.


its a rockband.


and once you got your perfect government you would eliminate the need for a band like rage against the machine.

: Rage Head Mar 5 2005, 06:30 PM

but the answer says "your idea of a perfect government", it doesn't mean a perfect world, if it was a perfect government or world that everybody was happy, I'd choose that, but it says "your ideal government", so that's not going to make everyone happy.

: defiance Mar 5 2005, 06:55 PM

Well those people can deal with it. I mean, don't most of us Rage/Zack fans like Zack so much precisely because he calls for social justice and a better system? Isn't that one of the best and most important parts of the music? My biggest dream is to see a perfect government; Rage should be secondary. It's true that others might nto agree with my idea of a perfect government, but so what? I'm much more worried about providing freedom and equality for everyone who lacks it, about giving the people what is rightfully theirs, than I am about everyone agreeing with me. Besides, my idea of a perfect government would leave a lot of room for disagreement and for dialogue, and if most of the people wanted something else than they would be able to have it.

: Rage Head Mar 6 2005, 05:51 AM

well that's a good point

: defiance Mar 6 2005, 07:57 PM

Well I'm glad you think so, laugh.gif

: PlzCheHelpMe Mar 7 2005, 03:54 PM

QUOTE
but the answer says "your idea of a perfect government", it doesn't mean a perfect world, if it was a perfect government or world that everybody was happy, I'd choose that, but it says "your ideal government", so that's not going to make everyone happy.
You obviously dont know my ideal government...

: regilas Mar 15 2005, 02:37 PM

^ I'd think it was communism, but then again, your ideal government might just be inspired by Che.

: Fred Mar 22 2005, 08:42 AM

i am really really shocked by this tread. you pepole must have it good if you prefer a rock band to a goverment.

1 billion pepole have no clean water depending on which way the votes go in the indian parliment over the next couple fo days hiv drugs could jump for 15 euro's a months to naerly 250 euro's a month. a death centace for many pepole.

i agree i would kill rage for the perfect goverment. Lifes not a fucking game. I would die for it.

god knows how many pepole die from amleria each day which is profetable. eminge a 747 crashing every day and your closes.

fred.


: AllPowerToThePeople Mar 22 2005, 10:00 AM

All mighty Rage!

: AllPowerToThePeople Mar 22 2005, 10:01 AM

QUOTE(Fred @ Mar 22 2005, 09:42 AM)
i am really really shocked by this tread. you pepole must have it good if you prefer a rock band to a goverment.

1 billion pepole have no clean water depending on which way the votes go in the indian parliment over the next couple fo days hiv drugs could jump for 15 euro's a months to naerly 250 euro's a month. a death centace for many pepole.

i agree i would kill rage for the perfect goverment. Lifes not a fucking game. I would die for it.

god knows how many pepole die from amleria each day which is profetable. eminge a 747 crashing every day and your closes.

fred.
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Dude, there isn't "perfect" anything.

: Fred Mar 22 2005, 10:43 AM

maby not but lets not disscuss philoshpy when pepole are dying from maleria i mean for fuck sake maleria this is pepole like me and you.


this is important stuff. not like and i like ratm to a sodding rock band. cant you all see the great diffrence in these things.

this has saverly shacken my confidence in hummanity

fred

: Rage Head Mar 22 2005, 01:03 PM

dude your perfect government isn't going to create every medecine and save everyone. your perfect government is what you want, but is possible. I think that alot of you think if you were in charge every thing could be cured and everyone could have a house the size of Bill Gates, but that's not going to happen. You need to understand you won't have control of everyones mind and all the scientific junk. You just sort out how money works and whether there's gay marriages and abortions or not and all that good jazz. You won't get a bunch of money to spend on every good cause, either. The world is screwed up, but if anyone here had there perfect government, I think you're thinking everything would be settled in every way. Sorry to break your heart.

: Fred Mar 22 2005, 03:12 PM

with all due respect,

i know money i have a degree in eccnomics.

in india now there is a debate going on weather to band the copy cat drugs for aids this will raise the drug prices from 20 dollars a head to 325 dollars a head per month.

dude i dont even know where to anser this post, it really makes me sick that you could concider that a fucking rock band is more important then stopping us poresser on india to ban these drugs.

dont think i am stupid, a lot can be done. it really must be done.

gay marrages and abosions well maby the whole world is not the fucking usa ok sorry if i am losing my temper he but it is really pissing me off.

look i am not going to dissus what my perfect goverment is here if you want to dissus such things as import tax intrest rates cost accounteting currency exchange and inferstrucur building i am happy to ablige. but if you gyes think that your fariout band getting back together is more important that nationalation of drug companys you need a huge dose of relalty.

fred

p.s sorry for losing my cool but gyes its a fucking rock group it dosnt matter


: Rage Head Mar 22 2005, 08:37 PM

I wasn't saying that it was! I think I would rather have my perfect government ideal thing, however, that wouldn't make everyone happy, and I do want to make people happiest. I know I said I wanted Rage back, but I would rather have my government, but the thing is I want people happy. You think you know how to make everyone happy. You will always have the rebels and everything. I respect what you think, but nothing can be perfect is all I'm trying to say. And I would also like to apologize for losing my cool. I try to keep cool. I think it's just that we have different views of what government can do. You see, at heart I'm an Anarchist, however I know in reality it can't work, so therefore I'm a democratic socialist. I don't like government, and even though I know it could be better, even I will never be completely satisfied, even with mine, because I want to cure the dying and stop everything that's not right, however, that would be mind control or whatever, and I don't want to do that. I don't want humans to be puppets. But for the record I do think government is more important than a rock band. Don't get me wrong. Have a good day, Fred, I'm glad you've joined the ZDLR.net community, you seem like a smart guy who knows what he believes and is ready to preach it. You stay cool.

: Fred Mar 23 2005, 09:33 AM

ok then whats your views the prefect goverment

fred

: Fred Mar 23 2005, 03:14 PM

any body want to put there money where there mouth is?

i think most pepole know my idears.

fred

: defiance Mar 23 2005, 09:59 PM

Rage Head, just to point out, sicne you say nobody's idea of a perfect governemtn could make every happy; that's true, but also one big part of what politics is is the structure of the system, and democracy (which I advocate, though a very different version than what we have here) is a structure that allows participation from the masses, thus the most favorable solutions for the people are more likely to come about. But also like I said before, which you seemed to agree with, I really don't care if soem peopel aren't "happy" with the system, as long as it is a just system. Soem people might not be "happy" with it, because it itneferes with their agenda or in the case of the upper classes, their economic interests, or the power of the ruling powers; however, their "unhappiness" in these cases means very little to me, sicne there are much more important issues, like the essential resources being available to all the people (that includes not just basic things like food, homes, and thigns of that nature, but also thigns like healthcare, education, other forms of information, decent means of moving about, and thigns like that), getting rid of poverty, getting rid of inequality, getting rid of imperialism, etc. Those are much more improtant to me than whether somebody is "unhappy" because their illegitimate wealth and power is threatened, or because the people aren't bound by their form of religion, or their form of political system. I really don't care if they are happy with it or not.

: Rage Head Mar 24 2005, 08:24 PM

Well you don't care if they're happy or not, but you do want the best for them. Technically, I think there are some politicians out there like that, but I probably don't like them. I'd just be a hypocrite, so I don't like to take charge, I just like to complain grin.gif . jk, but seriously, I don't really care about myself most of the time, but that the homeless get taken care of and what not, mostly. I try to help the homeless as much as possible. I once got a collection of money from my church and bought like 120 burgers from McDonalds and just gave them to homeless people. I just want everyone to feel the warmth of love or warmth of being cared for. I guess you could make everyone happy if you secretly killed all the unhappy people. I don't know where I was going, but I'll put this all down anyways

: Fred Apr 18 2005, 11:33 AM

what ever your perfect goverment is and may i remind you we have the poltics forum to dissus my point is that one rock band getting back together is so utterly insnificent that it is unthinkable that it coulod seriously be comparered.

fred

: Mumia Guan Be Free May 7 2005, 04:01 PM

The perfect government is no government at all.

Stupidest thread ever. Would I rather have RATM get back together or have a perfect US? Wow, totally hard decision. rolleyes.gif

: RATMfiend May 13 2005, 12:45 PM

I would rather have the perfect government . I would love for RATM to get back together but at least I can still listen to their cds in a utopian society right??

: shadow May 18 2005, 10:01 AM

If All My Dreams Came Truue....Then Rage Would Have Gotten Back Together YEARS Ago...


FUCK THE GOVERNMENT, I HATE ALL THE POLITICAL PARTYS...
(exept the greenparty...sometimes)

The greenparty, If elected, Would solve so many problems, and these solutions would last for years and years, but the other partys.....would just have solutions which last for 4years!, how fucked up...

: regilas May 18 2005, 03:46 PM

Okay. I have to agree with Fred up there, a little. Although "it won't make everyone happy," does that mean that a rock band will? Does that mean that Socialism won't make people as happy as having a rock band that would rather take the road of a "perfect government?"

I think not.

I don't think any of the RATM members would choose their reunion over a "perfect government," and I think it's insane to think that huge progress (though not total progress) is not as good as piece-by-piece progress.

: Rage Head May 21 2005, 06:33 AM

good point, but it's not "a perfect government", it's your idea of a perfect government, you have to realize it will be perfect to you, but other problems could come up for others, and is that perfect? alot of all of our perfect governments would have to have a bajillionzillion dollars. I'm not saying Rage is more important than a good government, but it would be necessarily "perfect" to everyone, and money doesn't come out of the wazoo.

: Sick-Nik May 23 2005, 02:57 AM

Hi guys

I have a question,

I once heared that Zack wa sent to prison?
Is that true? If yes, does it have anything to do with RATM or did he do anything else??????
Please answer as soon as possible!

THX

Nik

: rev79 May 23 2005, 03:32 AM

^Yeah, unfortunately it is true. And just look how prison changed him.

user posted image

Its not as bad as it looks. Only consuming bread and water for so long prepared him for his escape to the Pacific Northwest, where he feeds off of wild animals and vegetation. This photo was taken in July of 2002 by "Catfish Cowboy" Sammy Jenkins, and captures Zack during a daring sprint across a wooded area from the Seattle PD. I can only believe that his running gear and cleats helped him get away, as Mr. De La Rocha still remains at large.

: zdlr2005 May 23 2005, 03:47 AM

QUOTE(rev79 @ May 23 2005, 12:32 PM)
^Yeah, unfortunately it is true. And just look how prison changed him.

user posted image

Its not as bad as it looks. Only consuming bread and water for so long prepared him for his escape to the Pacific Northwest, where he feeds off of wild animals and vegetation. This photo was taken in July of 2002 by "Catfish Cowboy" Sammy Jenkins, and captures Zack during a daring sprint across a wooded area from the Seattle PD. I can only believe that his running gear and cleats helped him get away, as Mr. De La Rocha still remains at large.
[right][snapback]174545[/snapback][/right]

Crylol.gif
love that pic
did you make it?

: laydee May 27 2005, 09:48 PM

Nothing's perfect, so I'm going with the Rage reunion on this one. tongue.gif

: BarryBonez Jan 28 2007, 07:09 PM

QUOTE(EZLN libertad @ Jan 9 2005, 10:36 AM) [snapback]151798[/snapback]
rage 'cause they'd change the system

for the better

why change perfection? its a hypothetical

QUOTE(rev79 @ Jan 12 2005, 09:46 AM) [snapback]152602[/snapback]
Anybody who votes option #1 has a few bricks missing from their building.


: Salva Veritate Jan 29 2007, 06:06 PM

This thread bothers me a bit. First of all, the so-called "perfect" government is a theory and can't be quantified, so you'd have to assume "a government that makes everyone happy" or something along those lines. The poll assumes that such a thing exists.

That being said, I vote for a perfect government.

: born.as.ghosts Jan 29 2007, 08:59 PM

zmat2.gif i would definitely choose RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE...with the political situation here in the philippines,(it sucks!!) the government isn't working anymore...those who were in the position are just making shits.... ninja.gif

: NoblIcA Jan 30 2007, 03:43 PM

Perfect goverment? No goverment. It would only corrupt the good with power.

: Salva Veritate Jan 30 2007, 05:05 PM

QUOTE(born.as.ghosts @ Jan 29 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]201953[/snapback]
zmat2.gif i would definitely choose RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE...with the political situation here in the philippines,(it sucks!!) the government isn't working anymore...those who were in the position are just making shits.... ninja.gif

Wait, let me get this straight...you would choose RATM because they might slightly improve the government over a perfect government? Isn't that a bit contradictory?

: xAshleighx Feb 4 2008, 12:35 AM

O My God!!!!!!!!! the majority on ratm getting back together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yous listen to ratm you'd think you had a brain in your head!! and human advancment in your best interests. Listen to the music!!!!!!!!! Without everybody giving a shit the disgusting political happenings will continue!!!!! Take no notice to those who voted otherwise.

: fish Feb 4 2008, 05:42 AM

Democracy will eventually fail, just like socialism. because it will have no where else to go.
RATM stand for truth and having a ball while all the shit goes down. Even if Obahma gets rid of the 5th ammendment
the government will still have to come clean about why it wastes so much tax payers money on a space program,
When they've got intergalactic vehicles in area 51. The machine is like a contruction of swiss cheese!

: D.maype Nov 7 2009, 03:48 AM

I apologise, that I can help nothing. I hope, to you here will help.

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