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> Israel's Birth 1948
ImperialAerosolK...
post May 14 2005, 09:56 PM
Post #16


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the sad part is that Jews actually come from Ethiopia
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Lostphoenix
post May 15 2005, 12:32 AM
Post #17


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the only historical account of that land belonging to israel is bible, now how much credible is that historically? are you telling me that its scientific that sea parts when a person wants it, dead raise, food falls from the sky, people survive crucifixion, they speak in tongues etc......so hold on why actually not pick a land, that is not populated by anyone? and did Israel asked palestinians? its like i'm gonna just move into my next door neighbours without asking! that's not even squating, thats being .... horrible, the treatment of arabs is horrible.

i find it very strange that jews who had been subjected to so much suffering, genocides, pogroms would themselves subject any other human beings to the same....if they were not welcomed, why don't they understand the palestinian case...they are not welcomed in their own land.... jews were not welcomed in somebody elses land, but palestinians are not welcomed in their OWN land.

and yes, many jews are opposed to this, and that's great, but what we have to deal with, is the reality that its the other camp that is in power.

i don't want to justify hatred of jews in europe, a polish person once explained this to me, in her country jews owned everything, they operated like mafia, you could not open a shop, a business, anything unless you went thru them, if you didnt want to, they'd destroy you. you'd have to pay interest to them, so they'd not destroy you..... by the same logic that you used defiance (they've been hurt and not welcomed...so its no wander they wanted an escape by any means), i mean would you be welcoming to me if i behave bad at your home? im not saying the answer to the unpleasant behaviour should be genocide and innocent jews put together with those jews that operated this mafia style, i'm just saying that to paint europians as those bastards who didn't welcome jews is wrong. during the war, many of them were saved by the same europian bastards who didn't welcome them. i mean do the gypsies of europe barge into romania or india and claim it as their land? they were persecuted too, they should have a right to a land that is just theirs. or they should have rights to be nomadic, which had been taken away from them by settling laws. they were victims of holocaust and genocides, pogroms etc too..... why do the jews claim holocaust as their ticket to another genocide? why after that they treat the europian descendant jews better then the arabian origin ones? how strange to be a subject to racistic atrocity called nazism and then still be racistic amongst themselves even? that is something i fail to understand.

This post has been edited by Lostphoenix: May 15 2005, 12:34 AM


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Rain
post May 15 2005, 01:57 AM
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I'm pro-Palestinians like most people who have posted in this thread. However, while the declarations and actions of successive Israeli governments make me sick, there's something else that's always made me sick: it's the complicity and silence of powerful governments like the US and the UK, and also all countries belonging to the UN, and therefore, by extension, all those in these countries who are silent. Of course, not as guilty as the settlers themselves, but LP asked a question in the previous post. She said why did gypsies not move into Romania and India, and claim it as their land. The answer is, of course, they do not have poweful pals like Zinonists did; they have no one to give them a nice Balfour Declaration, or powerful governments to veto UN resolutions, or sabotage the UN's position on the wall. Sure Zionists are at fault, but this situation has gone on because the rest of the world allows it.

The article below gives a list of UN resolutions Israel ignores, among other things, and the role of the US and Europe in allowing the current situation.




Separation Wall



Why Israel boycotted the International Court hearing on West Bank wall
Jean Shaoul
WSWS.org
February 28, 2004

Israel’s refusal to appear before the International Court of Justice (ICJ) hearing on the West Bank security wall demonstrates its longstanding contempt for the United Nations and flouting of international law. Yet, instead of eliciting condemnation and threats of reprisals from the United States, Britain and the European Union for having acted as a “rogue state,” Israel has been supported in its insistence that the ICJ—and by extension the United Nations—has no right to interfere in Israel’s affairs without prior agreement.

Only the politically naive would accept that the stance of Washington, London and Brussels is determined solely by considerations of legal precedent. The International Court of Justice was set up by the United Nations in the aftermath of World War II as a mechanism for resolving international disputes, and its functions indeed have the limitations that Israel has sought to exploit. It can only decide a case between states when a defendant state agrees to accept its jurisdiction and has no power to enforce compliance with its judgments. It can, however, give a non-binding legal opinion when asked to do so by relevant UN organisations that can become the basis for moves to pass a UN resolution.

The United Nations General Assembly referred Israel’s construction of the wall on Palestinian Authority land to the ICJ after an appeal by the Palestinians in December of last year. Opening the oral hearings at the ICJ on the legal consequences of the wall, Palestinian UN representative Nasser Kidwa said, “The wall is not about security: It is about entrenching the occupation and the de facto annexation of large areas of Palestinian land.... This wall, if completed, will leave the Palestinian people with only half of the West Bank within isolated, non-contiguous, walled enclaves.”

The Palestinians argue that the wall—built on land outside Israel’s borders and involving the destruction of civilian homes, property and livelihood—is in breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which requires humane treatment for people in occupied territories. Article 147 defines extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity, and carried out unlawfully and wantonly, as a “grave breach.” Last September, the UN issued a report condemning the wall as “an unlawful act of annexation.”

However, Israel has repeatedly ignored UN resolutions and has no intention of changing course and accepting its authority, or of cooperating with its subsidiary bodies. Ever since the 1967 war, when Israel seized the West Bank from Jordan and Gaza from Egypt, its illegal occupation of the Palestinians’ land and its policy of collective punishment, deportations, house demolitions, detention without trial, the routine use of torture, curfews, road blocks, and political assassinations have breached every aspect of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Successive Israeli governments have ignored UN resolutions calling for the withdrawal of its forces from the Occupied Territories and condemning its actions against the Palestinians. The UN recognises that Israel has committed serious violations of international law; breached the Geneva Conventions; and that it refuses to implement Security Council Resolutions. Its record of defying the UN far exceeds that of any other member state.

But its contempt for the UN and for international law did not begin with its seizure of the Occupied Territories. After the UN voted in November 1947 for the partition of Palestine into two states—one for the Jewish people and one for the Palestinians, and an international status for Jerusalem—war broke out between the Jewish community in Palestine and its Arab neighbours. The superior weapons and training of the Zionist forces prevailed over the superior numbers of the Arab armies, and the newly established Zionist state was able to expand its territory by 21 percent compared with the UN partition resolution. This was at the expense of 700,000 Palestinians who fled the war or were forcibly expelled, while just 150,000 remained in Israel.

Between 1948 and the 1967 war, there were six UN resolutions condemning Israel for its raids on its neighbours Gaza, Jordan and Syria; recommending that Israel suspend its “no man’s zone in Jerusalem”; and urging compliance with UN resolutions.

In the period between the 1967 war and the year 2000, the UN Security Council has passed 138 resolutions relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict, all of which have been ignored:

* On June 14, 1967, the Security Council called upon Israel to “ensure the safety, welfare and security of the inhabitants, facilitate the return of those inhabitants who have fled the areas since the outbreak of the hostilities and recommends the scrupulous respect of the humanitarian principles contained in the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949” (Resolution No. 237).

* On November 22, 1967, Resolution 242 referred to the “inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war” and called for the “withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the conflict....”

* On May 21, 1968, Resolution 252 called on Israel to rescind measures changing the legal status of Jerusalem and to end its expropriation of land and properties.

* On March 22, 1979, the Security Council adopted Resolution No. 446, which stated that the policy of establishing Zionist settlements in the Occupied Territories had “no legal validity” and called on Israel “to desist from taking any action which would result in changing the legal status and geographical nature and materially affecting the demographic composition of the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, and in particular, not to transfer parts of its own civilian population into the occupied Arab territories.”

Fourteen resolutions have criticised Israel for defying UN resolutions. Four resolutions have accused Israel of violating the UN Charter. Seven have reprimanded, warned or criticised Israel for its deportations of Palestinian civilians. A further 19 resolutions have accused Israel of violating the terms of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which deals with the protection of civilians in war and under occupation.

Even this underestimates the true scale of Israel’s defiance of the UN, since the chief backers of the Zionist state, the US and Britain, have regularly used their power to veto Security Council draft resolutions. In total, the US had blocked more than 35 draft Security Council resolutions on Israel.

The US, in fact, bankrolls Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians. Smaller than the state of New Jersey, Israel receives nearly one third of the entire annual US Foreign Aid Budget—approximately $6 billion—as economic and military aid and loan guarantees. A massive $2 billion is earmarked for military aid.

The historical record embodied in these resolutions demonstrates the essentially criminal character of successive Israeli governments and is the real reason why Israel cannot submit to the International Court of Justice. To do so would mean accepting international law as set out by the UN and recognising that its actions for the last 37 years have violated every aspect of the Fourth Geneva Convention, adopted by the UN in 1949. More fundamentally, it would mean abandoning its policy of establishing a Greater Israel through the forcible expropriation of the majority of the West Bank and its incorporation into the Zionist state.

The lies and hypocrisy of the US and Europe
The US and the European Union—the latter originally supported the General Assembly resolution in December 2003—have backed Israel’s boycott, arguing that the Court should not get involved because the wall is such a contentious political issue. This contrasts starkly with their condemnation of Iraq for supposedly having flouted UN resolutions, which were in any case far fewer than those directed against Israel and equally contentious. In September 2000, George W. Bush, speaking at the UN General Assembly, memorably said: “Are Security Council Resolutions to be honoured and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?...We want the resolutions of the world’s most important multilateral body to be enforced.”

Bush and his main ally, Britain’s prime minister Tony Blair, claimed then that the failure to act on UN resolutions in relation to Iraq brought the UN into disrepute. According to them, Iraq’s flouting of the UN constituted a causus belli that legitimised the bombing of Iraq, the overthrow of its government and the subsequent occupation of the country. Israel’s flouting of resolution after resolution, on the other hand, was deemed irrelevant.

In the event, Bush and Blair went to war without the authority of the UN, while Chirac and Schröder refused to participate in the war against Iraq, also citing the authority of the UN. Now they have all come together to support Israel’s boycott of the UN’s International Court of Justice.

This is not the first time these countries have ignored the system of international conflict resolution put in place after World War II. While claiming to uphold the ICJ’s authority, the main imperialist powers have rejected it whenever it has cut across their own strategic interests. For example:

* In 1974, France refused to appear when Australia brought a case over France’s nuclear tests in the Pacific.

* In 1977, Argentina refused to accept a ruling that gave Chile possession of islands in the Beagle Channel. Only the intervention of the Pope prevented war.

* In 1984, the US walked out of a case brought against it by Nicaragua, which had complained about the activities of the US-supported Contra rebels, and said it would not comply with any ICJ ruling unless it suited US interests.

* China and Russia have never given their consent to be made a party to any case in the ICJ.

Thus, all the major powers have refused to submit to the ICJ unless it suits their interests to do so. In this way, international law is defined as a system created and controlled by the most powerful states for their own convenience. And Israel has concluded that it has a green light to do the same.

As far as the United States is concerned, the ICJ is treading on what is to all intents and purposes US territory and has no right to interfere in its sphere of influence. When it declared war on Iraq, the Bush administration made clear that it was not prepared to have its global ambitions contained within the framework of the UN and the other institutions set up in the aftermath of World War II to regulate international relations. And the European powers do not intend to oppose this development. As has been demonstrated by their support for Israel, they are prepared to make whatever efforts are necessary to placate the US and at the same time defend their own freedom to advance their predatory ambitions around the world without legal restraint.

The defence of basic democratic rights cannot be guaranteed by appealing to international law.

For decades after World War II, the received wisdom propagated by political leaders, the media and numerous academics was that the war and barbarism of the first half of the twentieth century were things of the past. Through enlightened policies, respect for national self-determination and the rule of law, including international conventions, and the mediation of the UN lay the road to peace and prosperity. Now all that has been ripped apart in favour of a policy of might makes right. The effective repudiation of international law and its administrative institutions heralds a new era of militarism, colonial adventures and oppression abroad, and a savage assault on the democratic rights of the working class at home.


from www.palestinemonitor.org


--------------------
Yin To Your Yang

All of those rocks there, all of them,
Thrown at us for as long as we can remember.
All of our dreams, all of them,
Flattened and crushed, as soon as they start taking shape.
Ah baby, who do they take us for.

Battered and bruised,
constantly,
relentlessly.
Killing? Not their aim.
Keeping us in an unimportant place is what this is about.
Ah baby, who do they think we are.
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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 15 2005, 03:29 AM
Post #19


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ok next muslim holiday i post a severed tongue for lying and maybe a shot of 9-11


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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 15 2005, 04:13 AM
Post #20


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QUOTE(Fred @ May 14 2005, 11:09 PM)
i think its a doggy area being prud of jewism and then flying the israilly flag.

israil is a country one with a bad recored. in germany cristing israil is like cristing jews so its still a no go area

fred
[right][snapback]173402[/snapback][/right]

jewism? jeez fred we know you have issues but I should fucking pop you for that little froyddean slipp
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defiance
post May 15 2005, 10:05 AM
Post #21


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QUOTE(lovely angst @ May 14 2005, 11:50 PM)
Of course there are two sides to the situtation, there usually always are. As a Palestinian living in America, i deffinatly see more than i would like of the "other side". You speak about Zionism just wanting to return Jews to their homeland, excellent go for it. But it is not justifiable in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. Nothing about religious impearlism is justifiable.

Go for it, move the Jews into their "homeland", but first make sure every single            Palestinian has a home, and not some shack in shanty town on the Gaza Strip.
[right][snapback]173449[/snapback][/right]

I agree with you about Palestinians rights. I have never disagreed with that, nor have I ever even indicated that. Unfortunately however you continue to classify Zionism as religious imperialism, when it is not a religious movement at all. Jews are not just a religious group you know. They are an actual "race" of people, a nation, just like Arabs are. The only difference is that Arabs were smart enough not to name their religion after their ethnicity.

QUOTE
the sad part is that Jews actually come from Ethiopia


What? Where on earth did this come from?


Lostphoenix:

QUOTE
the only historical account of that land belonging to israel is bible, now how much credible is that historically? are you telling me that its scientific that sea parts when a person wants it, dead raise, food falls from the sky, people survive crucifixion, they speak in tongues etc......so hold on why actually not pick a land, that is not populated by anyone? and did Israel asked palestinians? its like i'm gonna just move into my next door neighbours without asking! that's not even squating, thats being .... horrible, the treatment of arabs is horrible.


Actually that's a myth that is frequently referred to by anti-Israelis to deligitimizee their claim of a traditional homeland there. But as a matter fact, if you bothered to ever look it up, you would find that historical accounts from Rome, Babylon, from the successive Greek empires in that region, as well as many, many archeological finds, prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Israel is a very real historical fact. So instead of referring to myths created by uneducated people who don't know anything about the subject, what you should be arguing for is what I have already said, that for all the centuries that the Jews were in exile, Palestinians were living there as the natives, and therefore have every right to live. I have never denied that fact, so I don't know why everybody keeps bringing it up to me, instead of what I've actually said.

QUOTE
i find it very strange that jews who had been subjected to so much suffering, genocides, pogroms would themselves subject any other human beings to the same....if they were not welcomed, why don't they understand the palestinian case...they are not welcomed in their own land.... jews were not welcomed in somebody elses land, but palestinians are not welcomed in their OWN land.


I agree, it is very sad, and actualyl very depressing to me. You have no idea how depressing it is. I have read a lot about the plight of the Jews throughout history, and I feel a very strong sympathy. So it naturally feels extremely disappointing to say the least, to see how Israel has turned out. But I would like to ask you, whatever your feeligns are about it, does it actually surprise you to see that after all those centuries of oppression, and after something like the Holocaust, that many Jews would feel bitter and hostile to anyone who would try to crush their dream of an independent homeland? I'm not trying to justify Israeli aggression or persecution of Palestinians, I'm just trying to get people to understand the historical reasons for it. But unfortunately, most of the people I've talked to about this on here only see it as Israel is the invader and that's all, and refuse to actually discuss what I am saying. There's only been like two people I've discussed it with who actually paid attention to my comments and really considered them, and those were both on a previous discussion.

QUOTE
and yes, many jews are opposed to this, and that's great, but what we have to deal with, is the reality that its the other camp that is in power.


That's also very true, and unfortunate. And that's why I always find myself opposing Israel's policies, because they are always dominated by the exytremist faction, because they are the ones who keep getting the backing of the world super-power, and therefore they are the ones who themselves have power. I've already all of this before though, in both of my previous posts.

QUOTE
i don't want to justify hatred of jews in europe, a polish person once explained this to me, in her country jews owned everything, they operated like mafia, you could not open a shop, a business, anything unless you went thru them, if you didnt want to, they'd destroy you. you'd have to pay interest to them, so they'd not destroy you..... by the same logic that you used defiance (they've been hurt and not welcomed...so its no wander they wanted an escape by any means), i mean would you be welcoming to me if i behave bad at your home? im not saying the answer to the unpleasant behaviour should be genocide and innocent jews put together with those jews that operated this mafia style, i'm just saying that to paint europians as those bastards who didn't welcome jews is wrong.


Lostphoenix, you are smart, but unfortunately you are also very gullable. Like that Serbian guy who went on a while ago and claimed the Serbs were just fighting for their rights and their independence from Albanian imperialists, and apparently didn't give the slightest care to the fact that Serbs were the ones who slaughtered Albanian children and helpless civilians in Kosovo. Of course there is always the other side, but you seem to be too quick to only consider the other side.

The story about Jews dominating Europe, like the one about Israel aving never existed, is also a myth, perpetrated by European anti-Semites, like the Nazis, out of bigotry and ignorance, because they wanted someone to blame for all their problems, and Jews, like Gypsies, like illegal aliens, like Muslims, and like many other groups of people, made an easy target. First the claim was that they were foreign invaders, so they attacked them and drove them from one place to another, confining them in ghettos, and so on. Then it was that they were "Christ-killers," and infidels, so they slaughtered them during the inquisition. Then when they survived all that, and managed miraculously to create thriving communities, the story became that they were secretly dominating society, so they invaded the ghettos and instigated more pograms. And of course there were always bigots who just considered them "trouble-makers," because they were "different," and "foreign," and they teamed up with all the others. And then, to justify their despisal of the Jews, they came up with the Jewish-inferiority myth. And when Jews, fed up with all this and still dreaming of return to their ancient homeland, came up with Zionism, the anti-Semites came up with the theory that Zionism was part of the Jewish conspiracy for world domination -- a belief which unfortunately caught on among many Palestinians, and now among some so-called leftists as well. That belief was clearly promoted in the original charter of the PLO, which I have read.

What that Polish guy said does not surprise, considering that Poles were some of the most anti-Semitic racists in Europe, and durign the Holocaust, not only Nazi-sympathizers, but even Polish nationalists in the Home Army, frequently turned Jews in to the Gestapo or the SS in exchange for rewards. If you had much about the Polish Jews during the Holocaust, you know this. If if you knew, it would not surprise at all to hear a Polish person still making those kind of ignorant statements, which are the exact same statements made Hitler himself. Poles today evidently are not as apoligetic about the treatment of the Jews as Germans are. Which is not surprising since the Germans are the ones who caused it, while the Poles suffered under German occupation just like everyone else.

QUOTE
ok next muslim holiday i post a severed tongue for lying and maybe a shot of 9-11


Exactly. People will always pull up random pictures to support their side, and act like that's all there is to it, but when somebody does the same thign for the other side, they act like you're ignorant and haven't studied anythign obviously, and you must believe everything the media tells you. For every picture of Israelis shootign or beating Palestinians, or bulldozing their homes, one can just easily pull out a picture of the devastation and death caused by Palestinian bombs, or the horrible treatment of women under Islamic fundamentalist rule, and many other similar things. Obviously there's always more to the story than a bunch of random pictures, no matter which side you are looking at. I choose to research those hidden details and look at every side of the story, so I can actually understand and know what is going on.

And Nishtha, I know very well about Israel's violatons of linternational law. I have already said many, many, many times that I am against those violations and that I am outraged by their policies toward the Palestinians. The onl'y I've said differently than most people here is that I have also taken the time to research and understand the Israeli position, and what is the historical cause of this conflict. Everyone else seems content to remain half-ignorant about the subject.
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Lostphoenix
post May 15 2005, 10:28 AM
Post #22


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defiance,

my family owned a land in germany in thirteen century, does this give me right to go there and claim it? should the irish/welsh and scotts=of celtic descent... go to my country and reclaim it as they lived there before slavs? should they kick czech people out of their homes because their ancestors lived there at one time?


the smart/gulliable argument applies to you somewhere too, to see europians as murdering pro-nazis is like me claiming all american are pro-bush and pro-invation of iraq. that's completely ignorant. its like me turning to you and telling you that your country as usa had murdered indians and you all are responsible genocidal maniaks. how apologetic are whites of your nation?


and no i think if you have suffered, it does not justify you giving it to others. you as a first person should stand up against another human being suffering just as you had. that argument is completely eye for an eye justification and is inhumane in its base.

should the gypsies go and murder the gaje? they had suffered poverty - , they suffered holocaust too, all in all they suffered as hell and they get forgotten.... , nobody gives a shit and they had not revenged. i have a lot of respect for them.

This post has been edited by Lostphoenix: May 15 2005, 10:34 AM


--------------------
Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.
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Rain
post May 15 2005, 10:42 AM
Post #23


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Defiance, I don't mind being addressed individually. But that post was for everyone, don't know if you thought it was directed at you, though it looks like it. Anyway, regardless of whether you gave your position on the violations or not, I don't see this information being out of place in a thread like this. And I needed that info to make my point anyway.


--------------------
Yin To Your Yang

All of those rocks there, all of them,
Thrown at us for as long as we can remember.
All of our dreams, all of them,
Flattened and crushed, as soon as they start taking shape.
Ah baby, who do they take us for.

Battered and bruised,
constantly,
relentlessly.
Killing? Not their aim.
Keeping us in an unimportant place is what this is about.
Ah baby, who do they think we are.
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Lostphoenix
post May 15 2005, 11:01 AM
Post #24


soul rebel
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Group: Activist
Posts: 3,037
Joined: 31-December 04
Member No.: 3,077



and defiance,

thought you look at both sides of the story, in this case you don't seem to... everything is not black and white the way you see it as in print in books?

have you seen talmud?

just as jews are humans, the non jewes are no humans, but cattle..kerithuth 6th
page 78, jebhammoth 61

the non jews have been created to serve the jews as slaves...midrasch talpioth 225

the birth rate of the non jews has to be suppressed massively....zohar 11,4b

as you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace non jews..lore dea 377,1

the non jews have to be avoided even more then sick pigs..orach chaiim 57,6a


so are europians the only one with nasty skeletons in their cupboards or both sides sweety,.so don't you dare point your fingers and pretend that you see both sides. you clearly don't. and since you yourself cannot see both sides, you will not be able to persuade anybody to come to your side.

i can also say you are racist agaisnt europian whites, your attitude certainly is as objectable as any other way.

i see both sides, both side's wrong disgust me. i for one minute would not dare think one side is worse then the other that's racistic bullshit.

yes, arabs aren't innocent either, but at the moment, they are getting the lets wipe them out treatment. right now they are painted as the black sheep by the media and politics.

but that people don't sympathize with jews making war on arabs, doesn't make people anti-semitic and only idiots would accuse people of being so.

This post has been edited by Lostphoenix: May 15 2005, 11:03 AM


--------------------
Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.
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Metzli
post May 15 2005, 12:01 PM
Post #25


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LP,

It's a good point to make when you say that it doesn't make people anti-semetic if you're critical of Judiaism and all it's followers.. I think people should be critical. Also, there's nothing wrong with people being critical of the other side. To me, it feels as if Defiance is just reading this out of a book, and can't be anymore neutral. But hey.. it's all good, not everyone is supposed to have an opinion on something. I dunno, but I feel like you (Defiance) is talking down to the rest of us, saying that we really don't understand the issue, so you continue to repeat the same rhetoric that's been repeated over and over again. AHhh.. anyways.. L.P. that's some crazy ass info that you busted out with... but help me understand what exactly you're referring to when you say..

QUOTE(Lostpheonix)
so are europians the only one with nasty skeletons in their cupboards or both sides sweety,.so don't you dare point your fingers and pretend that you see both sides. you clearly don't. and since you yourself cannot see both sides, you will not be able to persuade anybody to come to your side.


What side is it that you're referring to, as it seems to me that Defiance isn't choosing any sides, he seems pretty nuetral... Has anyone even made a point as to how much money the US fucking gives to Israel each day to keep their terrorizing and controlling and killing Palestinians...?? Sheesh, I think that's also a big importance within this argument.


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Metzli
post May 15 2005, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE(ImperialAerosolKid @ May 14 2005, 10:56 PM)
the sad part is that Jews actually come from Ethiopia
[right][snapback]173451[/snapback][/right]



So you're saying that Jews are African, then if so, what's the point of it in this argument?


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i wear my stunna glasses at night...
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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 15 2005, 12:05 PM
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From: Vermont
Member No.: 483



well being the only jew on the board i would like to do the following....


first

sorry Fred that anti-semitism isnt hip yet in Germany. Give it time, fads go west to east.

second


LP your stats from the Talmud are great. And I hope on the solstice I can find druid stats to match.


3rd

Gut zol oyf im onshikn fin di tsen makes di beste.
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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 15 2005, 12:06 PM
Post #28


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From: Vermont
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QUOTE(Metzli @ May 15 2005, 08:03 PM)
QUOTE(ImperialAerosolKid @ May 14 2005, 10:56 PM)
the sad part is that Jews actually come from Ethiopia
[right][snapback]173451[/snapback][/right]



So you're saying that Jews are African, then if so, what's the point of it in this argument?
[right][snapback]173536[/snapback][/right]

i came to celebrate not argue
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Metzli
post May 15 2005, 12:09 PM
Post #29


forum gangsta
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From: PLANET ROCK!
Member No.: 144



celebrate zionism?


--------------------
i wear my stunna glasses at night...
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ImperialAerosolK...
post May 15 2005, 12:11 PM
Post #30


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Group: Activist
Posts: 5,060
Joined: 21-June 03
From: Vermont
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QUOTE(Metzli @ May 15 2005, 08:09 PM)
celebrate zionism?
[right][snapback]173540[/snapback][/right]

to celebrate the birth of my country....


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