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> Gay Marriage, your thoughts...
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Dataika
Apr 15 2004, 09:27 PM
#1


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Why the hell, should it be outlawed? Besides "Well Gosh, the Bible says so" they do not seem to have an adequate justification. Nor do they understand that you cannot use religion to dictate a truth with the Bible or a diety that you cannot even prove to exist.

So I really do not see the reasoning behind such assertions; nor behind the assertions that our founding fathers even looked upon Christianity in a good light. In fact, they did not (Thomas Jefferson especially), so why would they want it ANY PART of the Law making process? The answer? They did not. Religious ideals or dictations should keep out of national affairs and quesitons of law. If you want to encorporate some religious truth based upon your interpretation of your holy book then you will need to find another place if you want to establish your religious rule.

Of course, I don't look upon the majority of the founding fathers or their ideology very nicely, but I do agree with these assertions pushed forth by them.


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red@tm.net
Apr 15 2004, 09:34 PM
#2


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seperatrion of church and state. thats all i need to say. wether the bible says its wrong or not, shouldn't freaking matter, yet the buch admin keeps saying its wrong because the bible says so. thats horse shit if you ask me



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QuestionAuthorit...
Apr 15 2004, 10:14 PM
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The religious arguement holds no ground in the U.S. because, as Red stated, we have a separation of church and state. Using the Constitution for support, I don't see how one can argue that same-sex couples should not be allowed to marry. Under the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment no state can prohibit same-sex couples from marrying, the states must apply the law equally and cannot give preference to one person or class of persons over another. The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits the deprivation of liberty by the government, and The Supreme Court has ruled that marriage is a fundamental liberty. By barring same-sex couples from marriage, the government is taking away an individual’s fundamental right to marry the individual whom he/she chooses without due process of the law.


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Test subject #41
Apr 15 2004, 10:37 PM
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Agreed. v.gif


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Holter
Apr 15 2004, 11:23 PM
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Well one of the biggest obstacles for this is that in a majority of the states for a marriage license you need to have a member of the clergy either sign the license or be present at the ceremony for it to be legally recognized by the government. Its all a bunch of crap that that has become law.

Im all for Gay Marriage, and like everyone else I dont really see the big deal here, people need to calm the fuck down and keep their church out of my government.

I was at the court house in San Francisco when they were issuing marriage licenses a month ago, it was an amazing scene. Everyone was so happy, and even though I am not gay, i was very happy too. Good for them.


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Sara
Apr 16 2004, 12:31 AM
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i always thought of marriage as a legal documentation really. if a couple live together for a while, share expense rah rah, then they r living in a relationship in the nature of marriage, so having it legalized by being "married" before the law and the state should be a given.

all this bullshit bout the church and the bible mad.gif far out.

of course gay have the right to marry if they want to, u know, i dont evnvy u americans not one bit...it must suck having to deal with an idiot like bush for president. zmat2.gif


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AmericanPride
Apr 16 2004, 02:45 AM
#7


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I started a thread on this in the Tom Morello forums about 2 months ago, that got to be like 15 pages long. You guys should check it out.



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lemming
Apr 19 2004, 01:54 AM
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The government shouldn't be in the marriage business anyway. If it has to be it should be called civil unions and let the church handle the marriage part. Tax credits and all that jazz just cheapens it. Everyone should just write a will.

The biggest thing that pisses me off is people only careing about what the constitution says when it matters to them.

And the 14th amendment only protects everyone under the law "nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

That don't mean if a black guy gets a tax credit just for being black under the law doesn't give a white guy a tax credit, its just means you have to apply it to all black dudes.


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Holter
Apr 19 2004, 02:00 AM
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I have debated this topic across three forums now, and I have stood by my belief that religon should not be involved because it should not be a part of our government.

My only issue with Gay marriage is that I worry about the future and the potential direct results with the government allowing it. What is to stop the continuing decay of the family structure in America? Is polygomy the next step?

Its not that I think this is going to happen with 100% confidence, but whats to say that it wont. NO one can predict the future, so we cant say that this will happen. Just something to debate about in this now old argument.


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Sara
Apr 19 2004, 03:05 AM
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QUOTE (BholteRage @ Apr 19 2004, 10:00 PM)
My only issue with Gay marriage is that I worry about the future and the potential direct results with the government allowing it. What is to stop the continuing decay of the family structure in America?

like how do u mean?


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Holter
Apr 19 2004, 03:30 AM
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Like whats to stop people from having three person marriages?

And not to sound like a prick because I have zero issue with homosexuals, but whats to stop children from believing that a same sex marriage is the norm and that its just another option? I believe that you are born as a homosexual and that its not a direct result of your life. I think children are very impressionable, i know i was, and maybe somewhere down the line gay marriages will become an accepted part of society, and if they do maybe children will see that and just think, well hey why not?

Let me just emphasize that I want gay marriages to be lagalized in America, and Lemming I vehemently disagree that we should just call them civil unions and let marriages be deemed by the church. That is bowing down to the church and letting it influence our government/society, which is not what our country was founded on. I get your point though, and maybe thats what will happen, so many Gays are arguing that they want the same benefits awarded to married couples, and maybe the government will feel that this way they wont offend the tight sphinctered righties.

Like I said, i have lots of gay friends, and I want them to be able to be married to their loved ones just as much as anyone else, in fact maybe more than some of you. These are just opinions that have been presented to me that made a lasting effect.


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dodgydodger
Apr 19 2004, 07:55 AM
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Have you guys checked out this? this is a petition to sign to allow every american to marry (although im not american,i still signed anyway!)

Million for Marriage


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Dataika
Apr 19 2004, 08:43 AM
#13


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QUOTE (BholteRage @ Apr 19 2004, 11:30 AM)
Like whats to stop people from having three person marriages?

QUOTE
The government shouldn't be in the marriage business anyway. If it has to be it should be called civil unions and let the church handle the marriage part.


Marriage has been deemed a constitutional right. The state has been forced to step in before, especially with Blacks marrying whites. The public would have never allowed it at the time.

QUOTE
That don't mean if a black guy gets a tax credit just for being black under the law doesn't give a white guy a tax credit, its just means you have to apply it to all black dudes.


The 14th amendment has always been crap. I guess the majority of people consider black, hispanics and other minorities human now so the whole "all men are created equal" would apply to them (even though it was not originally intended for them). I would think the people say the same about homosexuals; but I don't know, with the american public, nothing is certain.

QUOTE
My only issue with Gay marriage is that I worry about the future and the potential direct results with the government allowing it. What is to stop the continuing decay of the family structure in America? Is polygomy the next step?


What is wrong with polygamy? What is wrong with a "decay" in the old Biblical, abusing to woman, roles of family? You know the whole "well women should just stay home and mind their husbands" crap?


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Holter
Apr 19 2004, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (Dataika @ Apr 19 2004, 09:43 AM)
QUOTE
My only issue with Gay marriage is that I worry about the future and the potential direct results with the government allowing it. What is to stop the continuing decay of the family structure in America? Is polygomy the next step?


What is wrong with polygamy? What is wrong with a "decay" in the old Biblical, abusing to woman, roles of family? You know the whole "well women should just stay home and mind their husbands" crap?

I think that polygomy is morally offensive and degrading to women. I know that I shouldnt have an issue with it because the women who get involved in these relationships do it with open eyes, but I still dont like to see these types of formations.

Well im not talking about the old biblical or 50's style of a housewife, im talking about "My Two Dad's". I think that the child would have to deal with a lot of crap from ignorant people at school, for the fact that he has two daddies or two mommies. Just something to think about. Its definitely not a reason to ban gay marriages, but its just something to think about.

Its funny, I see so little problem with this that I almost assume that Gay's are allowed to marry, and I seem to be focusing on society after even though it hasnt become a legal union. anyway


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Vìcmælon
Apr 19 2004, 02:28 PM
#15


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You're running into dangerous territory there Holter. Polygamy is morally offensive to you, so you believe that it should be illegal for everyone?

(Don't mean to put words in your mouth, but this seems to me to be your position).

IF that is what you believe, then you are justifying the persecution of those who have different moral beliefs than you. That shit is f*cked up! huh.gif

You are worried children may get the impression homosexuality is acceptable and might think 'why not try it?'. What is so scary about that? The only way you can learn is through trial and error. So two boys might kiss each other, are you really so threatened by that? I'm having difficulty seeing where you are coming from here.

Vic


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