Revolution Options

[Shifty]

I like Zack's political beliefs but one thing that bothers me is that he thinks the way to change society is revolution.I think its very bad way to change anything. Revolution means death of the people from both sides.Including innocent people.Death of the people who just do their work- i mean police and othe forces who would be mostly involved in conflict. People who have familys.

What do you think about that ?

[Salva Veritate]

I've noticed a pattern of your posts that point towards you assuming the bad side of Zack's and Rage's messages and making judgments that they promote violence.

[InMyEyes]

if you actually look deep into the lyrics ratm denounces violence, you can also look at the outrage that zdlr obviously had about the violence of the 2000 democratic convention as a source

[nick_C]

fuck cops imo

[dragnik]

I've noticed a pattern of your posts that point towards you assuming the bad side of Zack's and Rage's messages and making judgments that they promote violence.

isn't destroying of south-central farms some kind of violence?
it was not inspired by ratm songs and lyricks

[Crimson Clover]

"Some of those that work forces...are the same that burn crosses." "Violence in all hands embrace if need be...Livin' been warfare I press it to CD."

[Jfdreadhead]

I like Zack's political beliefs but one thing that bothers me is that he thinks the way to change society is revolution.I think its very bad way to change anything. Revolution means death of the people from both sides.Including innocent people.Death of the people who just do their work- i mean police and othe forces who would be mostly involved in conflict. People who have familys.

What do you think about that ?

I see what you're saying here. Revolution doesn't have to cause deaths, surely? I'm not sure, really, I'm just thinking out loud (if that's possible on a computer). Maybe there's another way to revolutionize without violence? Although I suppose and the end of the day, something ought to change, and revolution is the only way to acheive such a huge change. I'm not too sure it'll happen though; there's enough people but we're not all co-operated together properly. I'm really interested to hear other people's views on this, without going off-topic, of course.

I've noticed a pattern of your posts that point towards you assuming the bad side of Zack's and Rage's messages and making judgments that they promote violence.

When I first started thinking about Rage and violence, I was somewhat confused. I don't thin he promotes violence, just action, and often in Rage questions violence and if/when it is ever acceptable, from both sides of a conflict. It's a matter that has to be concluded personally, like I said in another thread about Zack and violence.

[Salva Veritate]

Revolution doesn't have to cause deaths, surely? I'm not sure, really, I'm just thinking out loud (if that's possible on a computer). Maybe there's another way to revolutionize without violence? Although I suppose and the end of the day, something ought to change, and revolution is the only way to acheive such a huge change. I'm not too sure it'll happen though; there's enough people but we're not all co-operated together properly. I'm really interested to hear other people's views on this, without going off-topic, of course. !--QuoteEnd-->

Of course revolution doesn't have to be violent! That's what the EZLN are all about. The perfect government needs not actually be perfect (because there's no such thing) but must listen when the people talk, and gather it in, not pushing The Button the second it hears the first voice speak up, speak out, and speak against. The perfect government needs to be friendly to all, instead of being friendly only to those that feed them large quantities of money, and must be willing to open up dialogue with any group, whether they have or have not money.

Wouldn't it be great if the two sides had meaningful dialogues before trying to exterminate each other?

[Shifty]

This thoughts about violent revolution come from real examples such as Mao Zedong and Lenin.Their revolutions caused a lot of bloodsheds and deaths.

[Darko]

Rage do not promote violence or any kind of violent revolution...Revolutions that have occured in the past have not change anything, they have all followed the same pattern...The system is the same, upgraded but the same...It s like buying a new computer...In a year your computer becomes old so you have to "revolt" and you upgrade the damn thing, but it is still computer, aint it?
True revolution to me is the "evolution of the mind"...You do not upgrade the System, you upgrade yourself...

Sorry for the bad english, and I hope I havent isulted anyone...

The revolution rocks on...

[dragnik]

This thoughts about violent revolution come from real examples such as Mao Zedong and Lenin.Their revolutions caused a lot of bloodsheds and deaths.

cuban revolution wasn't the plush one, too
'contra nobles revolucion'
non-class society instead of the class one
real communists doesn't admit the classes
all people are equal in front of the law
noone can tell: my grandfather was the aristocrat, and to have the protection because of that
the equality or unequality are the state of social consceus
free mind and the mind of slavery
that's way the church, as the reactionary's supporter, must not be the ruling force in the society
all churches and relligions are promoting the monarchy
monarchy, by itself, means the class society and unequality
how to break the mental chains of slavery?
napoleon said that poors without church would kill all richmen and free themselves

aren't many rock-musicians millioners? are you sure that they would leave their wealth, and join the revolution?

proffessional sport as the millioner-maker machine?
no, i'm not impressed with their millions and zillions

This post has been edited by dragnik: Mar 17 2007, 08:50 PM

[Onthefrontline]

YOu guys anyone who understands history knows that Revolution VS Reform discussion?

Revolution: Fast change
Reform: Slow change

simple laymen terms

French rev ideals that later evolved through Rudolf Steiner into the Threefold Social Order of
Liberty - social, educational, spiritual and cultural sphere
Equality - human rights/legal/political sphere
Brotherhood - commercial, free enterprise sphere

Read some Steiner, he was amazing. Its just easier if you read his philosophies. btw he lived in the time of WWI, predicted Germanys rise and guess who didnt give a fuck.



Revolution must come because weve been trying to reform this system forever and we all know how ridden this place is with corruption and deciet as well as murderers and liers. VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO REVOLT!!! GUERRILLA ART, ORGANIZE AWARENESS MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE LOCALLY IN STUDENT GROUPS, ASSEMBLE. we dont fucking stand a chance against the pigs and plus a violent uprising would give them more power to increase the police state.

they want to take our freedoms away little by little till we got nothing and dont really want it either. We live on bread and circus, society and culture are decaying in the pop-sphere but the underground culture is growing steadily and we can see it exposed in the pop-culture now. The revolution of the mind and the acitons, the change we want to see will be inside us, not our guns. Cant we understand that spiritual and united people -- that presence looming over the WASHINGTON MONUMENT over THE WHITEHOUSE and the entire nation will give them more fear than some violent rebels killing SWATs being killed by SWAT teams and Military and fuck bombed by...

look at the seceret suffering within the culture of any of your enemies
You'll see that your weaponry is just rewritting your own history. -- "Hand to Mouth"

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[Evil Empire]

I like you OTFL. I enjoy your company on the message board.

[insurrection]

YOu guys anyone who understands history knows that Revolution VS Reform discussion?

Revolution: Fast change
Reform: Slow change

simple laymen terms

French rev ideals that later evolved through Rudolf Steiner into the Threefold Social Order of
Liberty - social, educational, spiritual and cultural sphere
Equality - human rights/legal/political sphere
Brotherhood - commercial, free enterprise sphere

Read some Steiner, he was amazing. Its just easier if you read his philosophies. btw he lived in the time of WWI, predicted Germanys rise and guess who didnt give a fuck.



Revolution must come because weve been trying to reform this system forever and we all know how ridden this place is with corruption and deciet as well as murderers and liers. VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO REVOLT!!! GUERRILLA ART, ORGANIZE AWARENESS MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE LOCALLY IN STUDENT GROUPS, ASSEMBLE. we dont fucking stand a chance against the pigs and plus a violent uprising would give them more power to increase the police state.

they want to take our freedoms away little by little till we got nothing and dont really want it either. We live on bread and circus, society and culture are decaying in the pop-sphere but the underground culture is growing steadily and we can see it exposed in the pop-culture now. The revolution of the mind and the acitons, the change we want to see will be inside us, not our guns. Cant we understand that spiritual and united people -- that presence looming over the WASHINGTON MONUMENT over THE WHITEHOUSE and the entire nation will give them more fear than some violent rebels killing SWATs being killed by SWAT teams and Military and fuck bombed by...

look at the seceret suffering within the culture of any of your enemies
You'll see that your weaponry is just rewritting your own history. -- "Hand to Mouth"

Things are a lot better than they were a century ago. Organised labour is a big part of that, so yeah you're right about organising and getting together and speaking up. But it's not going to change overnight. I'd call that evolution but I suppose then we're just playing the semantics game (and who really cares about that). The end of slavery, the labour movement, the women's vote, the sexual revolution (the pill, abortion), public education, public health care (at least in other Western nations), the welfare state in general, are all examples of societal progress. Hell, the fact that we don't live under feudalism anymore is evidence of progression of society. None of those changes happened overnight. They happened because people did the kind of organizing you're talking about. I dunno, the word "revolution" just makes it sound so immediate, and I think it's important to remember that it just isn't like that.
There has arguably been a bit of regression because of the backlash from 9/11 but hopefully those changes will not be lasting...in Canada we've already repealed some of our post-9/11 "anti-terror" laws because they were too restrictive to civil rights. Opposition to the Iraq war is growing and the Bush admin. is collapsing like a house of cards, with what seems like a new scandal every month now.... The Left is consolidating power in Latin America and beginning to look to alternatives to the neoliberal trade policies of the IMF and the World Bank. And I'm sure I've left out plenty of other things.