What Is The Best Form Of Government?, This is an old topic, but it needs reviving. Options

[regilas]

According to you, what is the best form of government?

This post has been edited by regilas: Jun 12 2008, 08:47 AM

[Fremen Bryan]

Theocracy- God's Government

(AS SEEN ALL THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE OF THE REST OF THE UNI-VERSE, AND ALL THROUGHOUT THE NATURAL WORLD)

[Sarielite]

Theocracies are the most abhorrent form of engineered human control yet devised.


Governments, like tools, should match the parameters of the task it fulfills. Full, non-representative democracy only works on a very small scale--on a township level at most. Representative republican government works on larger scales, although it's my opinion that it breaks down at a national level as evidenced by the level of cruft that's built up in the United States legal code in the 230 years of its existence.

I'm inclined to believe that the most flexible, least corrupt, least cleptocratic, and most free form of government in the case of very large countries is constitutional monarchism. A legally-weakened king and barely-solvent court that acts primarily as a figurehead and an architect of foreign policy seems to me to be the best way to minimize unintentional cross-organizational interactions. The king is accountable to provincial governors and distributed constitutional arbiters.

[Fremen Bryan]

Theocracies are the most abhorrent form of engineered human control yet devised.


Governments, like tools, should match the parameters of the task it fulfills. Full, non-representative democracy only works on a very small scale--on a township level at most. Representative republican government works on larger scales, although it's my opinion that it breaks down at a national level as evidenced by the level of cruft that's built up in the United States legal code in the 230 years of its existence.

I'm inclined to believe that the most flexible, least corrupt, least cleptocratic, and most free form of government in the case of very large countries is constitutional monarchism. A legally-weakened king and barely-solvent court that acts primarily as a figurehead and an architect of foreign policy seems to me to be the best way to minimize unintentional cross-organizational interactions. The king is accountable to provincial governors and distributed constitutional arbiters.

Theocracy involves no human leaders like all of the liars who claimed to be Theocratic have had - proving them to be false. A true Theocracy is Rule by God (The Ruler of the Universe) alone. THAT Government is already established and currently Governing the whole of Creation, save on Earth where men have instead elected to live under evil greedy mans color of law laws, to their own demise.

The Eco-System is prime example of how Life flourishes under God's Rule; and the destruction IT is prime example of what happens when people follow any other leader (the blind leading the blind off of a cliff).

Anyone who is anti-Theocratic (God's) Rule is pro human extinction for those are the two options that we now face.

[Sarielite]

If one takes as a given that there is a supreme overseer of the universe--and I absolutely do not--how is one to divine its will or desires? It's an impossible task, which makes your support of a perfect theocracy a purely academic or theological one. Your perfect theocracy can no more exist than can a perfect communism, democracy, or anarchy. Actually, it's less likely because it predicates itself on the existence of a supreme being for which there is zero hard evidence for.

[muchojackdaniels]

If one takes as a given that there is a supreme overseer of the universe--and I absolutely do not--how is one to divine its will or desires? It's an impossible task, which makes your support of a perfect theocracy a purely academic or theological one. Your perfect theocracy can no more exist than can a perfect communism, democracy, or anarchy. Actually, it's less likely because it predicates itself on the existence of a supreme being for which there is zero hard evidence for.

I'd have to agree with that

[Fremen Bryan]

If one takes as a given that there is a supreme overseer of the universe--and I absolutely do not--how is one to divine its will or desires? It's an impossible task, which makes your support of a perfect theocracy a purely academic or theological one. Your perfect theocracy can no more exist than can a perfect communism, democracy, or anarchy. Actually, it's less likely because it predicates itself on the existence of a supreme being for which there is zero hard evidence for.

I'd have to agree with that

The Laws Statutes Economic Agricultural and Dietary policy handed down by the Ruler of the Universe to Moses (known as the Mosaic Law) are the only Laws ever on Earth that are completely unbiased and fair for all involved, instead of man-made law that is always biased and always unfair to the majority and slanted to benefit only the rich. In God's Law given to Moses the poor are taken care of first and always provided for (called 'the Law of Gleaning') and the poor are allowed ot walk into any persons field and eat ot their full so long as they do not take any away with them - and it is not stealing for their are safeguards to ensure that the hungry are always fed, for IF mankind is to follow these Laws to the letter than they would ALWAYS be prosperous and have more than enough for all. In God's Law usury also known as lending at interest like banks do is completely illegal, so that those who have the need of borrowing money in the first place are not being taxed simply for needing a loan (which doesnt make much sense to begin with, that those who have the greater need should be penalized for being in need). The 10 Commandments are the High-Light/Guide-Posts for the Law and Jesus later on even added a Spiritual Dimension by adding 2 NEW Commandments ( THE TWELVE COMMANDMENTS. Ten of which were given to Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20 v 1-17) and the eleventh and twelfth which were given later on by Jesus, one of which God demonstrated and still demonstrates i.e. "love your enemies into being good.") God's Law has Safe-Guards to protect 1) the fatherless 2) the widow 3) the stranger/wanderer yet man-made colour of law law is most unfair to these (especially widows who have their houses devoured by anti-God big banks etc etc). God's Economic policy is especially fair and catered towards protecting those who do not for whatever reason have food for themselves, and makes provision of the surplus anticipating the need of those who are poor (like the 3 groups mentioned above).



First published in 1947 by Dr. D. S. Milne.
Edited by JAH - 2000 A five part practical study of God's Law and The Divine Justice; Equality and Freedom that it provides; explaining how The Eternal Principles of The Law that was given to Moses 3,500 years ago can and should be applied to life in this day and age, to ensure abundant Life; Freedom and Justice for all and proper care for the Environment too.

If people would like to keep the Planet Healthy and Youthful, Beautiful, than God's Law is far superior to mans arrogant bastard law as well, for God is the Creator of the Planet, the Master-Designer of its very delicate inner-workings, and knows best what things will make his Children (mankind) also healthy and happy. It is because of laws allowing for the strip mining of coal, the mass clear-cutting of the rainforests, the massive amounts of black smoke pollution, the intense heat being produced at the sources of this smoke, and all sort of technology that is damaging to All-Life, as well as the large array of poisons being fed to and seething into mankinds collective body (while all the while they claim these things increase the quality of life and/or they are there to help and protect you).

God Himself, Who yes does exist (science has now proven to the secular scientists who went kicking and screaming into the Light of the Truth of this matter, against their wills, but with no other choice as so much evidence has slapped them accross the faces, and head butted them), handed down His Laws for all of us and mankind has never kept them. If however all men would return to these laws it would begin to put things Right in the world overnight.

Please see the following in regard to returning to God's Law and the impact it would have on Our Globe:-

Environmental Politics. . . . Our politicians and governments don't seem to be too concerned about the environmental catastrophes of recent years. They seem to be more concerned about lining their own wallets. . .

When all of the trees are cut down;
When all of the rivers and lakes are polluted;
When all of the fish have been caught from the sea;
Only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten.

- Quote

Matt. 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should NO flesh be saved: but for the Elect's sake those days shall be shortened (by Divine Intervention).




ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE Why it Happens and How to Stop it.

If someone was to come up to you one day and tell you that we are all living our lives all wrong and we have to change our ways immediately or we are all going to die, what would you do?

Slaves to "The System."

PLANET EARTH, a Garden of Eden full of life and beauty. Everything a human+Being needs to be able to live and co-exist with other human+Beings, in a caring society, in harmony with the natural environment, where everyone puts others before themselves.
So what went wrong?

THE REASON WHY Looking at the world today, it is going so drastically wrong and it appears that nobody is doing anything about it. Every day the environment is getting more and more polluted, the climate is becoming more erratic with un-seasonal storms; cyclones; floods and droughts... El NIÑO is one of - The "SIGNS" of The "END" Times, as was CHERNOBYL. All of the "Signs" were Prophesied THOUSANDS of Planet Earth years in advance by The Ruler of The Universe, Who, as you should see, if you read on, is NEVER wrong. The Signs were written for men to be able to recognise the END Time and to warn mankind to STOP (woe! woe! woe! - Revelation 8:13) and turn around BEFORE it is TOO late. The Working-Class Man “...Another day, another dollar...” he says to himself, as the worker makes his way from his humble abode to his place of “employment”... No matter what time they tell him to be there, he obeys. No matter what they tell him to do while he’s there, he does it without question. No matter how long they tell him to do it for... He is at the mercy of their bidding and finds himself putting their wishes and demands before his and his family’s affairs and even, at times, risks his own and other people’s physical health and well-being and the environment too, for them and their demands...



...God has blessed us with a beautiful planet to live on, let's go back to keeping it that way.

[Stormwarden]

Hey, Fremen, you know what a theocracy really is? It is rule by people who mistake their will for God's (for prime examples see the Vatican, Iran, Saudi Arabia, among others). And BTW, the real reason prophecies are vague is because that way, they can be interpreted any number of ways to suit whatever happens.

Sorry, but that hogwash doesn't fly. The religious fanatics should have no business ruling anything other than their churches.

Besides, after what God did to the Midianites in Numbers 31:1-18, God has no business ruling an Ice Cream Parlor, much less any human life.

[f4n]

...
Governments, like tools, should match the parameters of the task it fulfills. Full, non-representative democracy only works on a very small scale--on a township level at most. Representative republican government works on larger scales, although it's my opinion that it breaks down at a national level as evidenced by the level of cruft that's built up in the United States legal code in the 230 years of its existence.

I'm inclined to believe that the most flexible, least corrupt, least cleptocratic, and most free form of government in the case of very large countries is constitutional monarchism. A legally-weakened king and barely-solvent court that acts primarily as a figurehead and an architect of foreign policy seems to me to be the best way to minimize unintentional cross-organizational interactions. The king is accountable to provincial governors and distributed constitutional arbiters.

Dear Sarielite, u sound erudite. Could u please recommend me some autors to read - but they have to be famous, `couse i will read them in german (my english is not good enough, i suppose, for such topics).

By the way i was on the concert of RATM in Berlin (1 week ago) and i am a big F4n of them !
Thanks in advance, Sarielite.
Regards

This post has been edited by f4n: Jun 17 2008, 06:15 PM

[Sarielite]

Everyone should start with Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jarod Diamond. He basically takes on the most important question in history; why do some people have more wealth than others, or more generally "how did we get to where we are today?" and presents a compelling historical argument. Collapse is a good followup, in which he describes a general theory of how human civilizations rise, overreach, then collapse.

Alexis de Tocqueville is another good source on early liberal thought. His book, Democracy in America is a good resource. The Federalist Papers, particularly the early ones, are another good source on the first years of republican democracy.

I'd have to flip through my old history texts to find some more sources on specific topics, though.

[Sarielite]

The Laws Statutes Economic Agricultural and Dietary policy handed down by the Ruler of the Universe to Moses (known as the Mosaic Law) are the only Laws ever on Earth that are completely unbiased and fair for all involved, instead of man-made law that is always biased and always unfair to the majority and slanted to benefit only the rich.
...
A five part practical study of God's Law and The Divine Justice; Equality and Freedom that it provides; explaining how The Eternal Principles of The Law that was given to Moses 3,500 years ago can and should be applied to life in this day and age, to ensure abundant Life; Freedom and Justice for all and proper care for the Environment too.
...
God Himself, Who yes does exist (science has now proven to the secular scientists who went kicking and screaming into the Light of the Truth of this matter, against their wills, but with no other choice as so much evidence has slapped them accross the faces, and head butted them), handed down His Laws for all of us and mankind has never kept them. If however all men would return to these laws it would begin to put things Right in the world overnight.

This is why I said that no religion can be objectively proven correct; either your god is an amoral tyrant who waited more 990,000 years of the existence of humanity on this planet to pass along his divine laws, or those so-called divine laws were made up by people. What is to become of the spirits who lived and died well before these presumed divine laws were passed down? And why would a supreme being in his might and power give those laws only to the relative cultural backwater that was Egypt when there was a vibrant culture on Crete, in Sumeria, or in China? It makes no sense.

How do the ten commandments imply freedom? None of the commandments say that your body and mind are your own to possess, and may not be bought, sold, traded, or given away. In fact, the tenth commandment explicitly describes slaves and wives as belongings. Similarly, adultery in the broadest biblical sense is the sexual union between two people who are not married to each other (but one party is married to someone else); marriage in this sense implies possession because only possessions are subject to that kind of control. The ten commandments are at best neutral on the subject of freedom and at worst actively inspire the practice of one person owning another.

Science has never proven--or disproven--the existence of a supreme being. The empirical evidence of the structure of life, the universe, and the laws of physics seems to indicate that humanity as a species is not special. We live on a backwater cooling planet that's subject to regular unpredictable extinction events and rapid climate change, our star is going to expand into a red giant in the next 6 billion years (which, in geologic terms, is really soon). Our biology--and the biology of everything else on earth--is so filled with cruft and underengineered features that any engineer with half a brain can see room for improvement. The only barrier to doing so is the extraordinary complexity of genetic code that's been progressively changing for billions of years, which means that any change to the DNA causes a cacade of alterations. Perhaps a supreme being--or some being that's close to worthy of the title 'god'--is at the bottom of all this, but there's no evidence that life, and humanity emerged fully formed from God's Magic Assembly Line.

[Fremen Bryan]

Hey, Fremen, you know what a theocracy really is?

[ Yes I do - and it has nothing to do with what the Vatican (Whore of Babylon mentioned in Christ's Revelation to the Disciple John, Ch. 17 18), Iran (which is one of the 'Four Angels of the River Euphrates' mentioned in the same book {Turkey Syria and Iraq being the other three) or Saudia Arbia who all impose their own man made religious traditions which are opposed and conflicting with God's Law have been doing, wronglfully/sladerously claiming to be in the Name of God. True Theocracy is Rule by Theo (God) i.e. Christ The King on His Second Coming, on the 'Throne of David', which is the British Empire of today, Respectively (and the PRophecy of 'The Sun shall turn Black and the moon shall turn to blood' is code for the British/Davidic Throne (Known as 'The Sun' in Psalms) shall become evil/black-hearted and oppressive serving mammon, and the 'moon' is the Common-Wealth (of) Nations (i.e. reflects the Sun/British) as the peoples of these nations are slain as a result their wicked anti-God leaders (ALL religious and political leaders save a very few included). If the religious leaders had known what the Bible really says about them they never would have let people read it, and some of the books, like the book of Enoch the First Prophet, they DID successfully remove for fear of losing their jobs, as God Himself through these Prophets, and Jesus Himself, CONDMENS (which is why they had his human body KILLED!). Read about the meaning of Prophecy here:- http://jahtruth.net/prophecy.htm Welcome to the JAH "Prophecy" page.

More than ninety-nine percent of all Prophecy, given by The Ruler of The Universe; and approximately two-thirds of the Bible is Prophecy; has already been fulfilled, in exact and minute detail, as can be proved by comparing His Prophecies to world history. Only a blind-fool would therefore choose to believe that the remaining less than one percent will not also be fulfilled, likewise, in exact and minute detail; soon. You really ought to seek The Truth; to survive. "Only the Truth can set you free. . ."

Learn about the True interpretation of Scriptural and other Prophecies and how perfectly the Signs of The End Times fit with the times that we are now living in; find-out who the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse really are; learn the True interpretation of the Prophecies of Nostradamus; and much, much more on this amazingly informative page. ]

It is rule by people who mistake their will for God's (for prime examples see the Vatican, Iran, Saudi Arabia, among others).

[ None of thosep people work for God, and God actually condemns the Vatican repeatedly (Whore of Babylon):-http://jahtruth.net/darth.htm DARTH VADER
by JAH Who is DARTH VADER in REALITY?
(Yes Earth's REALITY) What does JEDI mean? Could YOU complete "The Training"? Where, on THIS planet, is ENDOR? It IS on planet Earth.

"What would Christ do if He could see? What would He, who rode on a donkey, think about the luxurious car, with the ornate throne as a seat? What would He say, if He saw the portfolio of the Vatican (stock-market) shares? What would He do if He saw all the treasures of the Vatican, treasures which could be used to alleviate ignorance by improving education? What would be His reaction to the comfortable lives of the members of the Curia? If Christ suddenly appeared in the middle of St. Peter's Square and said: "Leave your riches and follow me," I wonder how many would. I'd like to know what would happen to Him if He knocked on the Vatican door saying: "You speak in my name. You invoke me. I have come to tell you that you are misinterpreting my teachings." But I know exactly what would happen. The authorities would instantly call the Roman police, in accordance with the Lateran Agreements of 1929, and accuse Him of being anti-establishment, and of disturbing the peace. He would not be judged as before, however, but sent to a mental ward and classified as a maniac impersonator of Jesus Christ.'- Monsignor Semprione

You have now been told, by a catholic Monsignor, WHY the Threshold of Hope, where Christ comes to collect the "Chosen" few, before going to be put back down onto the Mt. of Olives, is NOT the Vatican. It is Gibraltar, exactly as it is Prophesied in Holy Scripture in both The Holy Bible and The Holy Koran. - JAH.

To find out the answer to Monsignor Semprione's VERY important question about what Christ would, and does, say about The Vatican, along with CONFIRMATION from Holy Scripture and the Testimony of the Apostles, and also the answers to my opening questions, including who Darth Vader really is, please read on . . .]

And BTW, the real reason prophecies are vague is because that way, they can be interpreted any number of ways to suit whatever happens.

[ People can say they mean all sort of things but they do really mean one thing, and the meanings are Sealed until Christ Breakes (or Has Broken as of www.JAHTRUTH.net and the Publishing of The Way home or face The Fire by JAH) the Seven Seals (Seven means 'Completely' or Whole so 7 Seals means Completely Sealed front and back). The TRUE Meanings can only be known by CHrist's Revelation (Teaching).]

Sorry, but that hogwash doesn't fly. The religious fanatics should have no business ruling anything other than their churches.

[ Actully Churches shouldn't exist, God says to have COMMUNITIES not churches with locks on the doors to keep people out 6 days of the week]

Besides, after what God did to the Midianites in Numbers 31:1-18, God has no business ruling an Ice Cream Parlor, much less any human life.

[ Those people were evil or else God wouldnt of had His people kill them and God already does Rule the Universe and Earth is only in the trouble that it is in, and the human race facing extinction, for NOT following God's Law (called a Punishment).]


31:1 And the "I AM" spoke unto Moses, saying,
31:2 Avenge the children of Israel on the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
31:3 And Moses spoke unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the "I AM" on Midian.
31:4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.
31:5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of [every] tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
31:6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of [every] tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the "I AM" commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; [namely], Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
31:9 And the children of Israel took [all] the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, [both] of men and of beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which [are] by Jordan [near] Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them outside the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, [with] the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of foreigners, to commit trespass against the "I AM" in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the "I AM".
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

[Fremen Bryan]

The Laws Statutes Economic Agricultural and Dietary policy handed down by the Ruler of the Universe to Moses (known as the Mosaic Law) are the only Laws ever on Earth that are completely unbiased and fair for all involved, instead of man-made law that is always biased and always unfair to the majority and slanted to benefit only the rich.
...
A five part practical study of God's Law and The Divine Justice; Equality and Freedom that it provides; explaining how The Eternal Principles of The Law that was given to Moses 3,500 years ago can and should be applied to life in this day and age, to ensure abundant Life; Freedom and Justice for all and proper care for the Environment too.
...
God Himself, Who yes does exist (science has now proven to the secular scientists who went kicking and screaming into the Light of the Truth of this matter, against their wills, but with no other choice as so much evidence has slapped them accross the faces, and head butted them), handed down His Laws for all of us and mankind has never kept them. If however all men would return to these laws it would begin to put things Right in the world overnight.

This is why I said that no religion can be objectively proven correct; either your god is an amoral tyrant who waited more 990,000 years of the existence of humanity on this planet to pass along his divine laws, or those so-called divine laws were made up by people.

[ They are the Laws that already Govern the Universe at Large (Love your Neighbor as you love Yourself etc) fixed into human perameters. The Keeping of them would of preped mankind for an Age of Enlightenment but instead our (satanic) technology has corrupted and is killing the Planet including all of its hosts (mankind). ]

What is to become of the spirits who lived and died well before these presumed divine laws were passed down?

[ Read 'The Way home or face The Fire' by JAH :- www.thewayhomeorfacethefire.net it explains wht Life on Earth is all about ]

And why would a supreme being in his might and power give those laws only to the relative cultural backwater that was Egypt when there was a vibrant culture on Crete, in Sumeria, or in China? It makes no sense.

[Israelites are not 'backwater' they were the Shepherd Kings race (Hebrew Pheonicians) who were brought into slavery in egypt as punishment after Jacopbs 11 sons sold their youngest brother Joseph into slavery for envy of their fathers favor of him, where he then became Pharohs right hand (for demonstriting superior inteligence also finding favor). After 400 years of punishment for what they did to Joseph, God arranged for Moses to one day, after being raised in pharohs 'palace', to one day lead His People the 12 Tribes out of slavery again, and THEN gave them the 5 books of the Torah complete with the Law Statutes Judgements Dietary policy, economic and agricultural policy, etc - nd when later on their descendants stopped following THOSE Laws (after the Reigns of kins David and Solomon) God used Babylon and the Assyrians to take his people back into slavery a second time, in the book/era of the Prophet Jeremiah. Jeremiah then left that region of the world for the Isle of Destiny aka Ireland along with the 'Tender Twig' Daughter of Judah Tea Tephi the Heir to the Davidic Throne, where she then married the Ard Ri (High King) of Ireland, how the Throne of David through succession of Ireland than Scottland eventually came to England where it has been ever since, the modern day British Empire (is Christ's In-Heir-itence on His Second Coming as King). ]

How do the ten commandments imply freedom?

[ If everyone did these things there would be a far better world, and you could trust that your property would be safe, your children, yourself, etc but instead churches have locks on the doors ot keep people out and their stupid anti-God materialistic treasures (mammon) in, joining field ot field against the face of the poor (i.e. oppression via richs robbery of the poor - and thou shalt not steal souns like a really good safeguard when you think about it like that). ]

None of the commandments say that your body and mind are your own to possess, and may not be bought, sold, traded, or given away. In fact, the tenth commandment explicitly describes slaves and wives as belongings.

[ Men are the head of the family the woman and the man are considered to be one person (i.e. One Flesh), not that the woman is LESS than the man she is an actual part of him (why adultry and fornication are ILLEGAL, science even has verified now that when people have sexul intercourse they absorb one anothers DNA - another reason why God is a far superious Law giver, knowing ALL about His Creation mankind, than greedy evil materialistic and stiffnecked cold hearted obscenely wealthy men (swine). Slaves/servants are also considered part of a household yet in God's Law you must be very regardful of your servants and give them freedom after 7 years, every 7 years on the 'Day of Atonement' unlike nowadays under man made law we havechild slave labour making Nikes and DBET slaves who are in debt for illegally being smuggled here, living in a disgusting apartment or slum somewhere with 50 other people, and then being taxed outrageously for food etc. So you tell me which sounds better and more fair for all involved?! ]

Similarly, adultery in the broadest biblical sense is the sexual union between two people who are not married to each other (but one party is married to someone else); marriage in this sense implies possession because only possessions are subject to that kind of control.

[ Marraige in Biblical times IS sexual intercourse and you have sex with somebody who is your wife, and you are UNDER LAW obligated to feed shelter and provide - LOVE/CARE - for both her and your offspring from union together UNLESS unfaithful. That Law is in place so men are sure their children are their own, and why shouldnt they be assured of that? In case of the divorce the MAN is givin custody as the man is the House owner it is a security measure toprotect the children. women these days are such sluts that 1 out of every 5 in America have an STD (1 in 4 in New York) medical experts now claim, it makes perfect sense there should be VERY strict Laws regarding this. Another reason would be the population EXPLOSION ]

The ten commandments are at best neutral on the subject of freedom and at worst actively inspire the practice of one person owning another.

[ God's Laws are actually KNOWN as the 'Ancient and Royal Laws of Liberty' which is why the world-famous 'Liberty Bell' has a BIBLE VERSE on it from the Torah (which means 'The Law'). God is very much Pro-Liberty and anti-Tyrant rulers which is why in His Law any man seeking to impose their own laws/legislation gets the death penalty (still valid today). ]

Science has never proven--or disproven--the existence of a supreme being.

[ No they have proven it more than once, the man who cracked the human genome wrote a book about how it is impossible that God does not exist based on his own scientific findings. This is just one field of science that has independantly proven that God does exist. Quatum-Physics is another. Walter-Russell wrote extensively on this:- www.MERLib.org ]

The empirical evidence of the structure of life, the universe, and the laws of physics seems to indicate that humanity as a species is not special.

[ Humanity is Special but so is the whole of the rest of Cretion, equally, and that is how it needs to be seen. ]

We live on a backwater cooling planet that's subject to regular unpredictable extinction events and rapid climate change, our star is going to expand into a red giant in the next 6 billion years (which, in geologic terms, is really soon).


Our biology--and the biology of everything else on earth--is so filled with cruft and underengineered features that any engineer with half a brain can see room for improvement.

[ Yet none of them can make a single blade of grass from out of the thin air let alone a human body, so what is their 'knowledge' (falsely so called) in comparison ot the knowledge that built the Organic Super Computer human animal body, which is self healing self reproducing the most intelligent creature on this planet (in spite of the wrong use of his 'knowledge') and is even complete with 'wireless communications' (when you consider that the human penial gland contains QUARTZ crystal, which mankind today uses for radio transmissions - God has given people built in telepathy, and as T.H. White notes in 'The Book of Merlin'/Once and Future King, the aboriginies of Australia worshipped giant quartz crystals as being able to relay messages between themselves and the 'gods'/angels). God is the Master-Builder Designer of the human body which is the Earth-House for the Soul (Being - Body+Soul = a human+Being) and scientists on Earth will nebver be able to build a more fit model, using organic materials like salt and water, as God HAS done (and again the man who cracked the human genome/DNA-Code has wrote a book on just this). ]

The only barrier to doing so is the extraordinary complexity of genetic code that's been progressively changing for billions of years, which means that any change to the DNA causes a cacade of alterations. Perhaps a supreme being--or some being that's close to worthy of the title 'god'--is at the bottom of all this, but there's no evidence that life, and humanity emerged fully formed from God's Magic Assembly Line.

[ That is, until one is awake. God/Light Lives at the Center of a human (the Being) and when one is an 'Awakened One' (Buddha/Christ) one is consciously aware of the inter-relationship between himself the Creator and All Creation, free of illusion. Buddha is quoted as saying that the entire Universe is the Body of Buddha meaning that because Buddha is completely in and OF God he is At-One with every other thing in existence, consciously, as God living at the center root of him Who is the life-sap running through his branches of him is also in and flowing through all things giving them their Breath/Water of Life. Science is only now starting to learn this Truth. ]

This post has been edited by Fremen Bryan: Jun 18 2008, 05:31 PM

[Stormwarden]

Fremen, reality check.

1) What did the Midianites do that was against God's command? And more importantly, what do you suppose happened to those women?

2) What? God can't do his own dirty work? Lazy bastard. If Moses gave me that order to kill the Midianites, I'd have killed Moses first, and gone looking for God second, so I could plant HIM in the ground. So that ends the whole idea that God is omnipotent if the guy can't be bothered to do his own dirty work.

Oh, and your book of Revelations? I have seen it before. It was a political paper on the Roman Emperor Nero disguised as a religious document. The whole premise of your call in Revelations is based on a deception started in the Second "Great Awakening" of the 1820s and '30s. Face it, your invisible bearded skydaddy isn't gonna save anyone.

As for your webpage, no thanks. Bullshit gives me hives. My advice to you is to lay off that kool-aid and read the Bible more critically. I read the Bible cover-to-cover, and that is why I am no longer a Xian. I don't serve amoral tyrants of any sort.

[Fremen Bryan]

[quote name='Stormwarden' date='Jun 18 2008, 12:20 PM' post='214102']
Fremen, reality check.

1) What did the Midianites do that was against God's command?

[In this verse God commands Moses to smite them for the slaying of two innocent woman that they committed:-

25:16 And the "I AM" spoke unto Moses, saying,
25:17 Vex the Midianites, and smite them:
25:18 For they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of a prince of Midian, their sister, which was slain in the day of the plague for Peor's sake.

Also I believe they were worshippers of the so-called 'god' (Idol) molech to which they threw their children into the fire.]

And more importantly, what do you suppose happened to those women?

[ they like everyone else of that era died and has been re-incarnated into thousands of different new bodies and human lifetimes because the soul is immortal so I see no reason to worry about or feel bad for them, anyway. Life on Earth is to test the Soul to see if it will act Good or Evil, and when evil IT is re-incarnated until it learns to be Good and released back out into 'Heaven'/The Universe. And if they hadnt been evil than there would be no reason to keep their influence out, but they were and so there was cause for them to be killed just as there is a call to have all of the satanic-cult groups of today who kill children themselves be killed. ]

2) What? God can't do his own dirty work?

[ It's called 'Clening House' and God CAN do it but God is not a physical being He is a Spiritual Being Life Force Energy called Love; the only reason God would tell people to kill people is to protect the innocent. For God to kill them they would just drop dead at His Word however telling the Israelites to kill their enemies He could test their trust (Faith) in His Protection (a test they cometimes passed and sometimes failed).]

Lazy bastard.

[ God Created the Earth in 6 days and only rested for 1 day - what can you do in 6 days? I'd like ot see the Planet that you create ... What typeof life do you suppose yours will be capable of supporting?! God is a Great King and I would thank Him for the Life-Force of you which He is. ]

If Moses gave me that order to kill the Midianites, I'd have killed Moses first, and gone looking for God second, so I could plant HIM in the ground.

[ Look where that got Satan. ]

So that ends the whole idea that God is omnipotent if the guy can't be bothered to do his own dirty work.

[ Have you ever heard of the 'Battle of Mons' ?! ]

Oh, and your book of Revelations? I have seen it before. It was a political paper on the Roman Emperor Nero disguised as a religious document. The whole premise of your call in Revelations is based on a deception started in the Second "Great Awakening" of the 1820s and '30s. Face it, your invisible bearded skydaddy isn't gonna save anyone.

[ The Book of Christ's Revelation to John it is not about Nero it is about far more than just that - it is also about the Gulf War and Sadaam Hussein (the 'Angel of the Bottomless Pit') Adolf Hitler (the Anti-Christ 666 Ch 13, did the opposite of Christ by killing Jews) and Christ's Second Coming:- http://jahtruth.net/prophecy.htm . It actually has 30 chapter NOT 22 - the last 8 were removed by the church leders but have been restored along with all of the other 'censored' Bible books, as well as being completely crossrefferenced with the Holy Koran in its entirety (thereby Uniting the Muslims Christians and Jews, whose divisions have been the root caue of the 'Lions Share' of every war since before human memory...) in the King of kings Version Bible:- http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm ]

As for your webpage, no thanks.

[ I don't own it, the Author JAH does. ]

Bullshit gives me hives.

[ You must be allergic to 100% Truth. ]


My advice to you is to lay off that kool-aid and read the Bible more critically.

[ Im not in the heavens gate cult. ]

I read the Bible cover-to-cover, and that is why I am no longer a Xian.

[ There is alot mising from the Bible unless you have the fully restored version, including the Book of Enoch. ]

I don't serve amoral tyrants of any sort.


[ Do you pay taxes or shop at walmart? Who is your internet provider? Tyrants all. ]